Characters Who Could Use the Secret Invasion Treatment

[ducklord]

So, let's imagine DC, rather than going for another reboot, decides to reset some characters via the Secret Invasion route. To wit:

For some time, an alien race (Daemonites? Durlans?) has been covertly planning to conquer Earth. To that end, they have sneakily replaced any number of high-ranking officials, super-villains, and super-heroes with alien doppelgangers (conveniently keeping the originals alive for, um, reasons). Now their time has come, the secrets will be revealed, and nothing will ever be the same again, yadda yadda yadda...

Basically, it's a story that, without significantly altering the timeline, allows DC to perform a "do-over" on any characters that have wandered way off the beam in recent years.

So, which characters do you think could benefit from a "I've secretly been a lizard person for the last n years" story? Bonus points for pinpointing the point at which they were replaced.

Amanda Waller
The poster child for this story. She's also the perfect person to replace with a dupe if you're an alien invader, what with her government ties and easy access to cannon fodder super-villains. I imagine that she got replaced just before her Earth-3 shenanigans at the latest, but I'm sure some of you can make a case for her being replaced earlier. The only sad thing about this is that it would be at least the second or third time she's been replaced by a ringer.

Lilith Clay
Given how egregiously OOC Power Girl has been in her current series, it's tempting to say that she's been replaced. But I think it's more interesting to tag PG's new friend-outta-nowhere as the evil alien, bending a Superman-level heroine to her will. I figure Lilith got replaced just before the Lazarus event, and has been working Karen ever since. Notice that PG seems like her normal self whenever she's NOT in her own book? That's a tip-off.

Jon Kent
This is the tricky one. I posit that Jon was replaced just a little before he went on his freaky adventures with Jor-El. The real one is still alive, and still a kid. But, I'd also suggest that this doppleganger has gone native, and will end up dying heroically to save his younger self and the planet.

Alfred
Replaced to get under Bruce's skin. Who knew Bane would show up and kill him?

Any others? And for how long?

[Icefan]

Maxwell Lord, replaced some time between I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League and Countdown to Infinite Crisis.

[marhawkman]

They actually did that with Fatality... and I hated it.

[ducklord]

Maxwell Lord, replaced some time between I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League and Countdown to Infinite Crisis.

That's realllllly tempting.

The return of a morally-grey-but-ultimately-on-the-side-of-the-angels Maxwell Lord, untainted by shooting Ted Kord in the head (did that even *happen* in current DCU continuity?) would be keen.

[ducklord]

They actually did that with Fatality... and I hated it.

You do have to be careful with moves like this, 'cause they *are* blatant character resets. They're the writers essentially throwing their arms up and saying, "okay, we've messed this character up SO badly that we can't move forward with them any more. So let's do a rewind and never speak of it again."

It's a desperation move, and should not be used lightly.

[Riv86672]

You do have to be careful with moves like this, 'cause they *are* blatant character resets. They're the writers essentially throwing their arms up and saying, "okay, we've messed this character up SO badly that we can't move forward with them any more. So let's do a rewind and never speak of it again."

It's a desperation move, and should not be used lightly.

^^^That said, your Waller idea would be fine by me, as she’s so far off base from how she was originally conceived it’s ridiculous.

[j9ac9k]

DC had their "Secret Invasion" type story with "Millennium" and revealing that a bunch of characters were Manhunters. They didn't use it to the extent that Marvel used the Skrulls, but it did happen. The premise is still valid though - there are plenty of characters in need of a factory reset. (although a lot of characters tend to get reset anyway just by the nature of these never-ending serialized storylines)

[ducklord]

DC had their "Secret Invasion" type story with "Millennium" and revealing that a bunch of characters were Manhunters. They didn't use it to the extent that Marvel used the Skrulls, but it did happen. The premise is still valid though - there are plenty of characters in need of a factory reset. (although a lot of characters tend to get reset anyway just by the nature of these never-ending serialized storylines)

I was gonna mention Millennium (a series that I believe is unfairly maligned), but decided against it. You're correct that it didn't really push the concept as far as it could've - although I still amuses me that Nancy was replaced by a robot.

[RogueWhistler]

I was gonna mention Millennium (a series that I believe is unfairly maligned), but decided against it. You're correct that it didn't really push the concept as far as it could've - although I still amuses me that Nancy was replaced by a robot.

I liked the Manhunter stuff in Millennium well enough, but the New Guardians part of the story was hard to read.

I generally don't like this approach, it usually feels like an unsatisfying copout, but I do think it would be just about the only way to bring Waller back in line with her original characterisation - the specific mechanism that I've seen suggested is that she was replaced by her Earth-3 doppelganger in her time over there. To be honest, though, I'm not sure how palatable "old" Waller is anymore, whether to audiences or DC editorial. John Ostrander's Amanda Waller might be my favourite comic book character, but I think there's less willingness to see someone like her framed so clearly as the protagonist, even one with flaws, as she was in Suicide Squad. I think that's why so many recent Squad stories have weighted their sympathies so far towards the Squad members, over Waller and the Squad as a program.

[Aarkus]

You do have to be careful with moves like this, 'cause they *are* blatant character resets. They're the writers essentially throwing their arms up and saying, "okay, we've messed this character up SO badly that we can't move forward with them any more. So let's do a rewind and never speak of it again."

It's a desperation move, and should not be used lightly.

especially when they end up being ruined again so soon afterward... like when Marvel said wife-beating Hank Pym had been a Skrull, then brought the real one back, merged him with Ultron and made him a murderer... yup, big improvement!

[ducklord]

I liked the Manhunter stuff in Millennium well enough, but the New Guardians part of the story was hard to read.

As far as slapdash comic-book philosophy goes, I found the bits with the Chosen to be wonderfully goofy and charming. And sure, the Chosen were chock full of broad stereotypes, but at least they were well-meaning stereotypes. And I stand by my assertion that Extrano is a character that a competent writer could turn into DC's Doctor Who.

The only thing I didn't like was the ending. It was billed as a story that "wasn't about super-heroes," but in the end it was just about the creation of a bunch of new super-heroes.

I generally don't like this approach, it usually feels like an unsatisfying copout, but I do think it would be just about the only way to bring Waller back in line with her original characterisation - the specific mechanism that I've seen suggested is that she was replaced by her Earth-3 doppelganger in her time over there. To be honest, though, I'm not sure how palatable "old" Waller is anymore, whether to audiences or DC editorial. John Ostrander's Amanda Waller might be my favourite comic book character, but I think there's less willingness to see someone like her framed so clearly as the protagonist, even one with flaws, as she was in Suicide Squad. I think that's why so many recent Squad stories have weighted their sympathies so far towards the Squad members, over Waller and the Squad as a program.

I'm not a big fan of this approach either, but when it comes to gross character rewinds, I vastly prefer it to reality-shaking Crises or temporal shenanigans.

I'm not sure what to make of Waller's descent and the degradation of the Squad in general. In it's original Ostrandian set-up, the criminal Squad members were (primarily) volunteers, looking to knock time off their sentences. They were varying degrees of sympathetic, and Waller, while not exactly *caring* about her pawns, did seem to get annoyed when things went bad. The missions themselves were definitely black books affairs, but very rarely strayed into "only Lex Luthor would approve of such ghastly doings" territory.

Nowadays Waller just kidnaps villains and forces them onto the Squad, and is overseeing ridiculous plots to cull the superhuman community. She used to work hand in hand with professionals like Rick Flag, Nemesis, and Ben Turner. Now her #1 guy is Peacemaker, who while funny, is about as professional as a Pee-Wee football team.

I just don't know, man.

[TheRay]

Some Senator that’s fiercely anti-Superman and, thus, has the backing of Apex, including his money and influence.

[RogueWhistler]

As far as slapdash comic-book philosophy goes, I found the bits with the Chosen to be wonderfully goofy and charming. And sure, the Chosen were chock full of broad stereotypes, but at least they were well-meaning stereotypes. And I stand by my assertion that Extrano is a character that a competent writer could turn into DC's Doctor Who.

The only thing I didn't like was the ending. It was billed as a story that "wasn't about super-heroes," but in the end it was just about the creation of a bunch of new super-heroes.




I'm not a big fan of this approach either, but when it comes to gross character rewinds, I vastly prefer it to reality-shaking Crises or temporal shenanigans.

I'm not sure what to make of Waller's descent and the degradation of the Squad in general. In it's original Ostrandian set-up, the criminal Squad members were (primarily) volunteers, looking to knock time off their sentences. They were varying degrees of sympathetic, and Waller, while not exactly *caring* about her pawns, did seem to get annoyed when things went bad. The missions themselves were definitely black books affairs, but very rarely strayed into "only Lex Luthor would approve of such ghastly doings" territory.

Nowadays Waller just kidnaps villains and forces them onto the Squad, and is overseeing ridiculous plots to cull the superhuman community. She used to work hand in hand with professionals like Rick Flag, Nemesis, and Ben Turner. Now her #1 guy is Peacemaker, who while funny, is about as professional as a Pee-Wee football team.

I just don't know, man.

Even a Crisis wasn't enough to "fix" Max Lord, so I can certainly agree with that.

Like you say, there's the fact that the Squad was almost entirely volunteers, but even the neck-bombs, which I would say have become pretty iconic to the modern iteration of the Squad, are a massive escalation of the original series' explosive bracelets (which, unless you were Captain Boomerang, you only had to wear on your first mission). The deal used to be a lot better, too: releases granted after one mission, and anyone who stuck around beyond that did so because they wanted to (again, unless they were Boomerang). There's a scene that stuck with me where Waller becomes furiously angry because the Squad were sent into an unnecessarily lethal situation, something that seems miles away from her current, or even recent, characterisation. I would like to see that Waller again, and saying she was from Earth-3 or a Durlan or something might be the only way, I'm just not confident that there would be any commitment to the "old" version.

[OBrianTallent]

So, let's imagine DC, rather than going for another reboot, decides to reset some characters via the Secret Invasion route. To wit:



Basically, it's a story that, without significantly altering the timeline, allows DC to perform a "do-over" on any characters that have wandered way off the beam in recent years.

So, which characters do you think could benefit from a "I've secretly been a lizard person for the last n years" story? Bonus points for pinpointing the point at which they were replaced.

Amanda Waller
The poster child for this story. She's also the perfect person to replace with a dupe if you're an alien invader, what with her government ties and easy access to cannon fodder super-villains. I imagine that she got replaced just before her Earth-3 shenanigans at the latest, but I'm sure some of you can make a case for her being replaced earlier. The only sad thing about this is that it would be at least the second or third time she's been replaced by a ringer.

Lilith Clay
Given how egregiously OOC Power Girl has been in her current series, it's tempting to say that she's been replaced. But I think it's more interesting to tag PG's new friend-outta-nowhere as the evil alien, bending a Superman-level heroine to her will. I figure Lilith got replaced just before the Lazarus event, and has been working Karen ever since. Notice that PG seems like her normal self whenever she's NOT in her own book? That's a tip-off.

Jon Kent
This is the tricky one. I posit that Jon was replaced just a little before he went on his freaky adventures with Jor-El. The real one is still alive, and still a kid. But, I'd also suggest that this doppleganger has gone native, and will end up dying heroically to save his younger self and the planet.

Alfred
Replaced to get under Bruce's skin. Who knew Bane would show up and kill him?

Any others? And for how long?

This...all of this. Plus Max Lord. Can you become an editor at Dc and get this going please?

[marhawkman]

You do have to be careful with moves like this, 'cause they *are* blatant character resets. They're the writers essentially throwing their arms up and saying, "okay, we've messed this character up SO badly that we can't move forward with them any more. So let's do a rewind and never speak of it again."

It's a desperation move, and should not be used lightly.

I mean... They had Fatality.... become John Stewart's girlfriend.

THAT was what the reset was about. Fatality had become unambiguously heroic... and... I loved it. The hero turn... actually kinda made sense. Her quest for revenge was something deeply personal to her.... and without it... she had no reason to be a villain.

Which also encompasses the entirety of Yrra Cynril as a Star Sapphire. It started with her getting shoved into a conversion crystal. Why? because... ultimately... Love is why she wanted revenge. Her family, her entire HW... were all dead and it left a gaping hole in her heart that she tried to fill with revenge.... but... it was because of love for those she'd lost that she wanted revenge. And this also lead to a really neat moment when she told John to stop moping about it.

People say the making out with John thing came out of left field... but... it's really not the first time Yrra acted like she wanted him. One time when she was locked up in prison John visited her and she... took off her clothes while talking about "physical contact" and walked off to the shower. And that was YEARS before the Star Sapphires made things even more spicy.

Hmmm if I was to write a time jump forward.... I'd reveal she actually did get something from John to keep her from feeling so lonely.. Yeah... Fatality jr sounds fun.