Interview: X-Men writers Gail Simone, Jed MacKay & editor Tom Brevoort

[Til]

They literally gave him a position of power, how is that not "with open arms"? And if they really just wanted his information, there is bound to be other ways to get it without giving him everything he wants.

Welcoming someone "with open arms" means you genuinely welcome them. You want them to be there. No one wanted Sinister to be there. They all hated him and were counting down the days until they didn't need him anymore. As for getting a hold of his archives without his cooperation, apparently that wasn't possible. It's literally in the story that they were taking DNA samples from every mutant resurrected to build up their own database as quickly as possible. That's how much they didn't want him there.

I'm not arguing that it didn't blow up in their faces, because it very clearly did. But there's no need to pretend the story was something it wasn't. Sinister was only there because they needed him for their resurrection process, not because they thought he deserved redemption.

[ChronoRogue]

Welcoming someone "with open arms" means you genuinely welcome them. You want them to be there. No one wanted Sinister to be there. They all hated him and were counting down the days until they didn't need him anymore. As for getting a hold of his archives without his cooperation, apparently that wasn't possible. It's literally in the story that they were taking DNA samples from every mutant resurrected to build up their own database as quickly as possible. That's how much they didn't want him there.

I'm not arguing that it didn't blow up in their faces, because it very clearly did. But there's no need to pretend the story was something it wasn't. Sinister was only there because they needed him for their resurrection process, not because they thought he deserved redemption.

I mean they can think and say what they want, but their actions show the opposite. Heck, they even gave him a team. Sinister literally faces 0 consequences even after he backstabs them several times.

As for the archive, I'm aware what Hickman states but the scenario seems contrived. The X-Men have dozens of extremely powerful telepaths, technopaths and reality warpers, you're telling me they can't interrogate or force Sinister to give them access? It's a weak excuse, I wish Hickman presented it in a more convincing scenario.

[Anthony W]

I can't be particularly moved that the island nation built on vibes is gone. Its too hollow for me to pretend like it matters. Just like the Arrakii

That is the most accurate description of Krakoa I have ever read.

[BobbysWorld]

I mean, the mutants who did act that way...were mostly the leaders of Krakoas government.

And people criticizing the choice to have those characters be Krakoa's government made up a vast majority of every single thread ABOUT the Quiet Council, for literal years. Oftentimes on the basis that.....its very makeup didn't do a good job of representing mutants as a whole and they didn't seem particularly concerned with what the average Krakoan wanted or cared about, and literally nothing they did the entire era was actually remotely relevant to the actual running of a nation and finding ways to make their peoples' lives better.

Like. Are you wrong about the Quiet Council sucking and its members being the worst? No. Hard agree. Its been a core thesis of mine and most ppl I know for years. But again, does that actually validate and support the idea that 'its kinda inevitable that mutants are gonna have it rough because they've spent the past five years telling humans they're their new gods now and that doesn't go over well'? I mean....I don't think so because again, I refer you back to where my gripe about the Quiet Council is Shaw, Selene, Mystique, Exodus, Sinister and assorted others should've never been the spokespeople for mutants BECAUSE their perspectives and priorities aren't remotely likely to be aligned with the average Krakoan's.

Like, we're not in disagreement on THAT point, just, its fairly safe to say your preferred solution to this problem is throw out the whole Krakoan framework and be done with it already, whereas my solution also happens to be the reason WHY I'm so frustrated this era is ending now.....its literally WHY I was so interested in seeing what happened when the QC all publicly stepped down at the third Hellfire Gala and made room for an entirely new group to be voted in by Krakoans rather than handpicked by existing QC members.

I mean, after being very consistent and vocal about acknowledging that the QC's makeup makes no sense on a practical level and exists that way purely for the sake of cheap drama, since pretty much day one....with my take having always been that this particular element is a very obvious, baked in flaw at the foundation of Krakoa....but ALSO, it has a very obvious, very easy to implement solution that doesn't guarantee getting it right but at the very least is a positive change in the right direction.....ie.....write a reason for this QC to step down and bring in a new one that at least has a CHANCE of being effective so long as you dont also handpick this new one's members specifically TO be as ineffective and dysfunctional as possible, like was the case with the previous one.....

And then after literal years they go ahead and actually WRITE that VERY SET-UP! And it looks like they're FINALLY going to address that glaring foundational flaw and make a change for the better, and we'll FINALLY get to see what kind of stories can be told with this set up when the point isn't just 'messy bitches are messy but also, inexplicably in charge' but instead NOW its actually gonna be 'here's the new mutant government, can they get **** done, y/n'.....

....except then they turn around and say hahaha sike, we're not doing that at all, this is actually the end. And literally rub our faces in the fact that they were fully aware of how easy it would be to just.....do something different with Immortal X-Men, they just....aren't gonna. And after ALL THIS, we're quite literally NEVER going to get to read what a good faith effort at showing mutants making a go of this whole Krakoa thing might look like.....

Like yeah. That's frustrating as hell.

But absolutely none of that changes the fact that the flaw with the Krakoan era and set-up wasn't that mutants are all supremacists and have been running around for five years telling humans they're their new gods now.

It was that.....the editors and several of the biggest writers of the era weren't interested in the stories that could be told with the Krakoan era and setup, so much as they were interested in how messy could they make things with that set-up. And so they CHOSE, with intent, to keep the FOCUS on the characters you're talking about being so problematic in regards to humans, and that's what Brevoort's using to say 'yeah mutants were problematic about humans, as we all saw'....

And that's veeeeeery disingenuous. Because no. That's not 'mutants from around the globe' and its not proof that their collective opinions and attitudes were ever the issue. That's the handpicked-to-be-messy-as-**** assortment of drama queens and deliberately polarizing characters, and THEIR collective opinions and attitudes.......

Being used as a scapegoat to be like here's why Krakoa was bad and mutants are all tainted now by association.....

When the one thing we're ALL ACTUALLY AGREED UPON.....is that if there was ever actually a sincere, good faith effort made to engage with the Krakoan premise and focus on a cast of governing mutants and what they think about mutant/human relations and what are their priorities when it comes to representing the average Krakoan and making decisions that will affect their futures.....

The cast in that hypothetial scenario would've NEVER been the actual Quiet Council lineup we were stuck with the whole damn time.

Because we all know - and have always known - that this QC is not indicative or representative of most of the mutant characters outside of these 12.

And we also know, this lineup was literally never even DESIGNED to be an actual functional representative body for mutantkind.

It was designed to do one thing and one thing only: Make a fucking mess.

And shockingly, it performed as advertised. Which is fine, in isolation. Immortal was never my favorite book of the era, largely for this very reason. I enjoyed the era in spite of it, not because of it, and preferred the books whose writers seemed genuinely interested in the Krakoan premise and had thoughtful stories to tell with it, like Ayala, LaValle and Ewing.

The bitter pill part though, is just that now that the era's on its last legs and we're moving on to the next thing.....Brevoort and others are looking at the mess that was made in the book that literally only existed to be messy, and have chosen to take the angle......well, "mutants from all over the world" sure have a mess to deal with now, but it was kinda inevitable, because Krakoa made them all messy and problematic.

And that's....not what happened. "Krakoa = unavoidably flawed" and "mutants = collectively and equally problematic" are not empirical, immutable truths of the era that inevitably landed us where we are now.

Its just being treated that way, instead of "key writers prioritized controversy and drama over a sincere exploration of the Krakoan paradigm, but that says something about them, their chosen priorities, and the characters they chose to make and emphasize as deliberately controversial....it doesn't actually say anything about the Krakoan paradigm and all the characters those writers DIDN'T choose to focus on or write being controversial and were never actually remotely relevant to the story they wanted to tell about the dramatic messy bitches playing King of the Castle in their little clubhouse while everyone else on the island paid no attention cuz none of that actually had anything to do with them."

[Rev9]

Storm herself has been identified as a goddess. That doesn't mean she's a mutant supremacist.

There's nothing "magical" about what I said. I'd count Apocalypse on the pro side, and he's a villain. The villains I listed don't count because they're not mutant supremacists. Except maybe Selene, but she was specifically planted there by an enemy of Krakoa, and it required much of the Council to be removed from the vote.

In the very first issue of Hickman's X-Men, Storm doesn't make a distinction between Orchis and the rest of humanity. She says 'So be careful Cyclops! If you look close enough , you can see the desperation in their eyes! Suicide bombs and serving the greater good are always the last refuge of a conquered people'. To me that sounds like she is singing from Magneto's hymn sheet.Why even use the word 'conquered people' ?

Also she is there after the crucible ceremony in X-Men#7 and all the contempt we hear for humanity from Apocalypse , next to Apocalypse and Xavier telling Aurora 'On your feet Child Krakoa is waiting for you' I do agree with gonnagiveittoya on the basis of those panels she would fall in the 'pro' camp

[Rev9]

They literally gave him a position of power, how is that not "with open arms"? And if they really just wanted his information, there is bound to be other ways to get it without giving him everything he wants.

I think with Sinister, the easiest thing to assume is he manipulated events with the Moira clones to get into the council(and there is plenty to suggest on panel, it is a logical assumption)I mean at this point Enigma could have prompted Xavier and Moira to seek out his clone. It is forced and contrived writing by Hickman , but Gillen gives extenuating circumstances(although nothing less is expected of Sinister's biggest fan)

[ChronoRogue]

I think with Sinister, the easiest thing to assume is he manipulated events with the Moira clones to get into the council(and there is plenty to suggest on panel, it is a logical assumption)I mean at this point Enigma could have prompted Xavier and Moira to seek out his clone. It is forced and contrived writing by Hickman , but Gillen gives extenuating circumstances(although nothing less is expected of Sinister's biggest fan)

You mean reset the time-line until he was accepted? I guess, but it would been nice to actually see that and how he actually countered all those scenarios which would have been big obstacles.

[Rev9]

You mean reset the time-line until he was accepted? I guess, but it would been nice to actually see that and how he actually countered all those scenarios which would have been big obstacles.

There is that , but also the fact that going to him from the very beginning seems odd, until you realise that Destiny wanted to thwart Enigma, but couldn't risk standing in his way overtly so she prognosticated time points in her diaries , which we know Moira read and likely followed too (Moira may have had fears and reservations about Sinister,but Xavier opted to go to him which makes me wonder if Enigma nudged events to precipitate this) All in all Destiny pushing Moira to create Krakoa, fit into the contours of Enigma's plans as well (at least with regard to diamond being well placed to ascend to Dominion)

[Jackraow21]

My son taught me a new phrase the other day that apparently kids his age use: “It ain’t that deep.” That’s as good a summation as any for how I tend to think about these funny books. Sure, there are some parallels to real world issues and that’s kind of what I love about the X-men comics. But when they come up short of doing justice to these weighty issues, because they are indeed weighty… well, sometimes it just ain’t that deep. *shrugs*

[Rev9]

My son taught me a new phrase the other day that apparently kids his age use: “It ain’t that deep.” That’s as good a summation as any for how I tend to think about these funny books. Sure, there are some parallels to real world issues and that’s kind of what I love about the X-men comics. But when they come up short of doing justice to these weighty issues, because they are indeed weighty… well, sometimes it just ain’t that deep. *shrugs*

I feel the parallels to the real world were laid down by Magneto to humanity at Davos. It's why I find it funny when some argue what he said to the visitors to Krakoa didn't permeate to the everyday person. Magneto laid it out that everyone would know and do nothing about it eventually (according to his reading of the tea leaves anyway) Well we're probably getting a wiser Magneto in the next course only time will tell.

[Kingdom X]

The mutants did also kind of take over the earth and genocide all of humanity in the Sinister timeline, which was one hundred percent avoidable by not trusting Marvels Starscream in a major position of government.

The same timeline where all the mutants became Sinister slaves and were then driven to extinction as part of Sinister's attempt to become a Dominion? What's your point? We all know the QC was a trash government... that's why they were about to step down.

Are you saying that the average mutant needs to ingratiate themselves to humanity because of an AU where they were also victims of the same supervillain's evil plan? Has mutantkind not already "paid the price," for all of the missteps of Krakoa though the aforementioned deportation, imprisonment, experimentation, and general violence done on them during the FoX?

[Rift]

In the very first issue of Hickman's X-Men, Storm doesn't make a distinction between Orchis and the rest of humanity. She says 'So be careful Cyclops! If you look close enough , you can see the desperation in their eyes! Suicide bombs and serving the greater good are always the last refuge of a conquered people'. To me that sounds like she is singing from Magneto's hymn sheet.Why even use the word 'conquered people' ?

Also she is there after the crucible ceremony in X-Men#7 and all the contempt we hear for humanity from Apocalypse , next to Apocalypse and Xavier telling Aurora 'On your feet Child Krakoa is waiting for you' I do agree with gonnagiveittoya on the basis of those panels she would fall in the 'pro' camp

Storm spoke poetically, as she does sometimes. But let's say she really was talking about humans as a whole. Even if she did become a supremacist at that point, she certainly wasn't one during the rest of the Krakoan era.

And the "Krakoa was waiting for you" line doesn't say or imply anything malicious. She's just there to celebrate the return of one of her own.

[BobbysWorld]

PS KingdomX clear out your inbox, its full and I can't slide into your PMs all platonically and whatnot. Its very awkward for me.

[Rev9]

Storm spoke poetically, as she does sometimes. But let's say she really was talking about humans as a whole. Even if she did become a supremacist at that point, she certainly wasn't one during the rest of the Krakoan era.

And the "Krakoa was waiting for you" line doesn't say or imply anything malicious. She's just there to celebrate the return of one of her own.

I didn't say she was malicious in X-Men7 ,but it hints that she has bought into the ethos of the crucible .All that was said by Apocalypse she is ok with.It's a numbers game at this point what panels 'speak' this way or that, but most of the panels have Storm speak either for a general Krakoan or Arraki position or her own. With only a few interacting with(or speaking for) humanity.

[Rift]

I didn't say she was malicious in X-Men7 ,but it hints that she has bought into the ethos of the crucible .All that was said by Apocalypse she is ok with.It's a numbers game at this point what panels 'speak' this way or that, but most of the panels have Storm speak either for a general Krakoan or Arraki position or her own. With only a few interacting with(or speaking for) humanity.

The whole argument was that the listed Council members thought that mutants were gods and above lowly humans. Mutant supremacists. Even if she was focused on her own people (who needed her and relied on her leadership for their well-being), she didn't exhibit supremacist traits.

Yeah, she wasn't standing up to Apocalypse's words. But no one else was, either. They knew to sit back and see this play out. After all, it was Aero's decision to go through with this. And who's going to stop things and take time to tone police during all of this? The fact that she doesn't say anything to show she agrees with Poccy before, during or after this is pretty telling on what she thinks. They don't need to dedicate limited panels to have her state the obvious, that racism is bad and Apocalypse isn't a nice person.