Does what Percy did to Beast remind anyone of Daenerys at the end of GoT?

[marhawkman]

I am not the biggest GOT fan, but I have to agree. Hank has been a slow-motion bus accident since 2012. Dani had her story change abruptly just because they needed an ending and the very lazy non-committed writer of the original source material was not (and STILL has not) been able to finish his story in time to provide the showrunners with a proper ending to film their finale.

Yes, but which X-Men haven't been a "slow-motion bus accident" since 2012?

[Icefanatic]

In Game of Thrones, when Daenerys burned King’s Landing the show tried to retroactively argue that she was bad all along to make it in character, and that the fans just didn’t see it. “When she murdered the slavers of Astapor, I’m sure no one but the slavers complained. After all, they were evil men. When she crucified hundreds of Meereenese nobles, who could argue? They were evil men. The Dothraki khals she burnt alive? They would have done worse to her. Everywhere she goes, evil men die and we cheer her for it. And she grows more powerful, and more sure that she is Good and Right.”

SOME fans didn't see it, but plenty did. I was expecting it most of the way. Especially after the slavers. She was constantly having to be talked out of doing far worse things than she did. You take out the wise counsel of characters like Tyrion that restrained her from her worse instincts and impulses and you would have had last season Daenerys several seasons earlier.

Early in her attack on King’s Landing, after she was upset over the death of her friend, the camera zooms in close on her as she is pivoting right after a massive attack and I could see it on her face. I actually said out loud 'it isn't enough'. And I knew she was about to unleash hell with no one there to talk her down as they had for several seasons.

I couldn't believe so many people were shocked and claiming it all came out of nowhere, I don't know what show they were watching.

It's like Krakoa in many ways, functioning as a litmus test for the fans as much as anything, with many people seeing something how they want to see it instead of what it actually is.

[Dum Dum Dugan]

SOME fans didn't see it, but plenty did. I was expecting it most of the way. Especially after the slavers. She was constantly having to be talked out of doing far worse things than she did. You take out the wise counsel of characters like Tyrion that restrained her from her worse instincts and impulses and you would have had last season Daenerys several seasons earlier.

Early in her attack on King’s Landing, after she was upset over the death of her friend, the camera zooms in close on her as she is pivoting right after a massive attack and I could see it on her face. I actually said out loud 'it isn't enough'. And I knew she was about to unleash hell with no one there to talk her down as they had for several seasons.

I couldn't believe so many people were shocked and claiming it all came out of nowhere, I don't know what show they were watching.

It's like Krakoa in many ways, functioning as a litmus test for the fans as much as anything, with many people seeing something how they want to see it instead of what it actually is.

I think it’s less that Dany went bad and more how abrupt it was.

GRRM himself said “I think one of the big complaints about those last seasons is not only what happened — although there are complaints about that — but also that it happened too suddenly, and it was not set up. And if we had 10 seasons or 12 seasons, I think that would have worked better.” (and yes he’s partially to blame for not finishing the books in time, but if d&d had at least split s8 into two seasons and laid more groundwork for Dany’s descent it might have been received a little better).

[marhawkman]

I think it’s less that Dany went bad and more how abrupt it was.

GRRM himself said “I think one of the big complaints about those last seasons is not only what happened — although there are complaints about that — but also that it happened too suddenly, and it was not set up. And if we had 10 seasons or 12 seasons, I think that would have worked better.” (and yes he’s partially to blame for not finishing the books in time, but if d&d had at least split s8 into two seasons and laid more groundwork for Dany’s descent it might have been received a little better).

I'd guessed the character would end up opposed to Jon Snow somehow just due to the way the other big players got bumped off.

Like you say, it's just... wait... that's it?

[SturdyMike89]

Yes, but which X-Men haven't been a "slow-motion bus accident" since 2012?

Except maybe Rogue. Gambit and Laura: Wolverine also have remained unscathed for the most part. Also Lockheed though he hasn't shown up as much as he should.

[Havok83]

Except maybe Rogue. Gambit and Laura: Wolverine also have remained unscathed for the most part. Also Lockheed though he hasn't shown up as much as he should.

Too be fair Gambit's damage happened before 2012 and he's thankfully recovered from that. That Milligan crap was cringe

[Rift]

And of course, Hellion. The last decade has only proven him more and more right, retroactively. He's basically won by default. Plus he also dated a shark.

[Wolverine12]

I doubt that very much, Hank made mistakes and trusted the wrong people at times before Krakoa came along but it was never leading to him becoming this monster who made even his AoA counterpart look like a saint in comparison.

Another thing that i felt happened more before Krakoa is that Hank faced more punishments down the line in comparison to Percy's iteration who only near the end faces the consequences of his actions and frankly i felt like it wasn't enough.

Honestly this should go down as one of the top five character assassinations of all times.

The evidence is there if you want to see it. I’ll agree that Percy full on jumped the shark with Hank but his path to villainy was more paved than Dani’s imo. That’s the question I’m answering. I’m not answering “do I think Percy assassinated Beast as a character.” Also he’s definitely not worse than Dark Beast from AoA, he might be just as bad but I think you’re under selling Dark Beast lol.

[SturdyMike89]

Too be fair Gambit's damage happened before 2012 and he's thankfully recovered from that. That Milligan crap was cringe

Yeah, that Gambit story was so bad it does not surprise me that it never gets mentioned. That whole storyline was unbelievably bad with what it did to Chamber and the fact that the person who freed Apocalypse in the first place was Cable because that is something that's absolutely in character for him.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I think the Hank / Daenarys comparison fits. Both had build ups for their "turn to the dark side" and both had actions in their past that explained it, but the execution was lacking and we never got enough peeks into their thoughts to flesh out their motivations and elevate them from moustache-twirling villains to sympathetic antagonists... so they both felt like heel-turns instead.

[Havok83]

I think the Hank / Daenarys comparison fits. Both had build ups for their "turn to the dark side" and both had actions in their past that explained it, but the execution was lacking and we never got enough peeks into their thoughts to flesh out their motivations and elevate them from moustache-twirling villains to sympathetic antagonists... so they both felt like heel-turns instead.

I dont feel like there was any build up to Dany's heel turn. The way she flipped in that final episode was so shockig and no one predicted that bc for 8 seasons the show was building her up as one of its two main protagonists and rightful heir to the throne. They wanted us to root for her and that was all thrown away in the span of 15 minutes.

Beast hasnt been a protagonist in a long while and in his fall from grace happened long before X-Force. Him being horrible here wasnt shocking to most people bc it fell in line with how he had already bee portrayed for years. It wasnt an abrupt character assassination like Dany, but one that had been gradually building up for quite some time

[Rev9]

Did George R.R Martin intimate to the show producers/writers that ultimately this was on the cards in the unreleased books or did they independently cook up their own scenario? Anyone know the scoop?

[Rift]

Beast hasnt been a protagonist in a long while and in his fall from grace happened long before X-Force. Him being horrible here wasnt shocking to most people bc it fell in line with how he had already bee portrayed for years. It wasnt an abrupt character assassination like Dany, but one that had been gradually building up for quite some time

Beast had dark moments, but was overall portrayed as good guy who's primarily invested in finding more peaceful solutions. He was also a protagonist as late as 2018, when he was on Havok's unofficial X-Men team in Astonishing X-Men. Most people were shocked by what Beast did in X-Force, because prior to X-Force, who really saw him attempting genocide and turning Wolverine into his slave?

Dany is the same: she had questionable moments, could be very vindictive, and had no problems killing her enemies in horrible and cruel ways. She often let her emotions get to her, and one of her prime emotions was anger. Even in the show, people recognized her potential danger if she didn't have her friends grounding her But overall, she was a well-meaning person who did a lot of good.

Beast's like Dany in a lot of ways, in that there were red flags in the past. They were very obviously good people, but had the potential to go down a dark path if they let their worst impulses guide them. But that doesn't mean they could just go from A to Z without first going through the rest of the alphabet.

[marhawkman]

Did George R.R Martin intimate to the show producers/writers that ultimately this was on the cards in the unreleased books or did they independently cook up their own scenario? Anyone know the scoop?

I know the show writers talked to him. But.....no one's said just what detail. One would think the basic story is similar at least? But..... how much? I have no idea.

[DurararaFTW]

The evidence is there if you want to see it. I’ll agree that Percy full on jumped the shark with Hank but his path to villainy was more paved than Dani’s imo. That’s the question I’m answering. I’m not answering “do I think Percy assassinated Beast as a character.” Also he’s definitely not worse than Dark Beast from AoA, he might be just as bad but I think you’re under selling Dark Beast lol.

The Beasts that woke up from the pods that Beast hid in historical sites, NimrodBeast, Ego moon beast, Broodbeast ectera were one and all worse then Dark Beast in my mind. Beast's actions in the present may not have been worse then Dark Beast just yet but the case that they inevitably would was made.