POLL: Should "The Dream" Come Back Post-Krakoa

[gonnagiveittoya]

A big part of the establishing of Krakoa in HOXPOX was the reveal that the Dream, mutants coexisting with humans, as established for 60 years of X-Men history, was actually a lie: that the real plan all along was actually to create an immortal mutant nation with Magneto and Moira before the X-Men as a team were even first created, and that everything that had happened during the entire publication history of the franchise was actually just a stopgap to set things up for this mutant nation. Should the franchise bring that core ideal back to being the centerpiece of the X-Men franchise, now that the current centerpiece, Krakoa, is going to be going away?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

A big part of the establishing of Krakoa in HOXPOX was the reveal that the Dream, mutants coexisting with humans, as established for 60 years of X-Men history, was actually a lie: that the real plan all along was actually to create an immortal mutant nation with Magneto and Moira before the X-Men as a team were even first created, and that everything that had happened during the entire publication history of the franchise was actually just a stopgap to set things up for this mutant nation. Should the franchise bring that core ideal back to being the centerpiece of the X-Men franchise, now that the current centerpiece, Krakoa, is going to be going away?

Sure but I don't see Krakoa as an antithesis to that goal. The average mutant citizen should still want that goal irregardless of Xavier's true intentions.

The X-men is the only Marvel ip built around expansion. So having the younger mutants strive to live up to that goal is a good way to go.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Sure but I don't see Krakoa as an antithesis to that goal. The average mutant citizen should still want that goal irregardless of Xavier's true intentions.

The X-men is the only Marvel ip built around expansion. So having the younger mutants strive to live up to that goal is a good way to go.

Aside from a few side mentions was that really the case during Krakoa? 99 percent of it was young mutants talking about how great Krakoa was. There was even an entire book of humans fanboying over how great Krakoa was

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Aside from a few side mentions was that really the case during Krakoa? 99 percent of it was young mutants talking about how great Krakoa was. There was even an entire book of humans fanboying over how great Krakoa was

Sabretooth's first miniseries involved a riot over the 3 laws and how they were enforced. So I'm sure there were characters that weren't buying the hype. Most weren't the focus.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Sabretooth's first miniseries involved a riot over the 3 laws and how they were enforced. So I'm sure there were characters that weren't buying the hype. Most weren't the focus.

Gonna have to raise an eyebrow at Oya, Nekra, Toad, Nanny, Orphan Maker and co as being supporters of human mutant coexistence

[DurararaFTW]

A big part of the establishing of Krakoa in HOXPOX was the reveal that the Dream, mutants coexisting with humans, as established for 60 years of X-Men history, was actually a lie: that the real plan all along was actually to create an immortal mutant nation with Magneto and Moira before the X-Men as a team were even first created, and that everything that had happened during the entire publication history of the franchise was actually just a stopgap to set things up for this mutant nation. Should the franchise bring that core ideal back to being the centerpiece of the X-Men franchise, now that the current centerpiece, Krakoa, is going to be going away?

It wasn't a lie, Moira's past lives show the X-Men is what Xavier would create regardless of whether Moira helped him, or got him to agree to the Krakoa idea or instead threw in with Magneto. It just wasn't the whole truth in this specific timeline.

[JB]

I dunno. I feel like the dream became almost unreachable once the extinction level threat stories started. Maybe around Decimation. It feels like it's been mostly about surviving since then. If we can take a break from immediate extinction threats then maybe coexistence can come into view again.

[Bruce Wayne]

I dunno. I feel like the dream became almost unreachable once the extinction level threat stories started. Maybe around Decimation. It feels like it's been mostly about surviving since then. If we can take a break from immediate extinction threats then maybe coexistence can come into view again.

They can't. Because they have to constantly dial up the danger to mutant kind for the sales that the franchise ended up in the situation. But at the same time, this makes the dream unreachable and something like Utopia and Krakoa are the only logical alternatives in the situation where mutants are constantly facing extinction.

Do people not understand that Krakoa was itself a form of co-existence. Yes mutants had their own nation, but they still very much interacted with humanity politically and economically.

Most people's idea of Xavier's dream was of mutants being accepted as humans and integrated into human society and not just a separate nation state formed exclusively for mutants. Krakoa is more separate, but equal.

[Sin Nick]

Yup, back to the mansion I say. All I can say is X-Men '97 has completely killed what little interest I had in the current books and got me reading old back issues. I'm only speaking for myself, but a return to something familiar might make the mutants interesting again.

[cranger]

The Decimation/Extinction era was the simply Marvel's way of keeping the X-Men in their own corner of the MU and at the same time using the popularity that remained despite the horrible stories to try to prop up MCU friendly characters (there is a lot that has to do with films and licensing on a superficial level) and trying to keep the revenue coming in and the number of titles on the shelves high. There is nothing in the last twenty years of repetitive doom and gloom that is essential to nor definitive of the X-Men characters, teams or history. The X-Men books reached peak readership before and without any of this level of genocide.

[Dizzystarr]

Nah after Krakoa The Dream is as dead as Uncle Ben

[ARkadelphia]

Nah after Krakoa The Dream is as dead as Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben… still alive and well

IMG_0782.jpg

[Devaishwarya]

The Dream of co-existence was still present, the mutants just founded their own nation community where-in they didn't have to depend on the very sparse kindnesses of strangers and the people who hated them. Where they could live and thrive in the comfort and authenticity of their skin/powers without fear of judgement. The heroes still fought for a world that hated and feared them, to freely exist in that world. And they were well on the way to achieving that dream and would have succeeded except...as plot would dictate...OS, Orchis and the Machines frakked that dream up.

Mutants are forever doomed to be fighting for a dream that will never ever be realised....if Brevoort and Co. have any say about it.

[danielsan52]

Tobias Messenger had an idea:

Tobias Messenger traveled the world looking for other mutants like himself who would be able to influence world events through their concerted efforts. Messenger succeeded in finding a few mutant allies, but none of whom were very powerful compared to the original group of X-Men and their contemporaries (a difference that Messenger attributed to the dawn of atomic power during the 20th century).

Messenger credits his original group of mutant with bringing a quicker end to the first World War. However, his allies either died or moved on to other endeavors leaving Messenger alone again. At this point he decided to place himself in suspended animation, emerging once every ten years, he would seek out new mutants to join his cause.

Messenger formed the Promise during the 1930s to 40s in an attempt to protect mutants from prejudice.[2] He believed that a war between mutants and baseline humans was inevitable, and although mutants were certain to emerge victorious in the conflict, the result would be chaos as various mutant factions would form and begin to fight with each other.

Messenger had hoped to take a leadership position in this post-war, mutant controlled world.

[gonnagiveittoya]

I just feel that after a five year stretch of the franchise as a whole (not every character, but the larger direction of the series) being about the dream being a lie/rejected itd be nice for the next one to go back to it