POLL: Should "The Dream" Come Back Post-Krakoa

[gonnagiveittoya]

I just feel that after a five year stretch of the franchise as a whole (not every character, but the larger direction of the series) being about the dream being a lie/rejected itd be nice for the next one to go back to it

[gonnagiveittoya]

THe options are too biased against Krakoa.

It's a yes or no question, how is that biased

[AJpyro]

It's a yes or no question, how is that biased

I feel that saying that the xmen should go back to coexistence paints a negative on krakoa's existence/inclusion. The xmen don't need to only be living on the main continents for coexistence to work.

[cranger]

I just feel that after a five year stretch of the franchise as a whole (not every character, but the larger direction of the series) being about the dream being a lie/rejected itd be nice for the next one to go back to it

I think you keep focusing in too much on some very specific interpretation of one scene, especially since the dream has been 'dead' since Deadly Genesis (and arguably Decimation).

[gonnagiveittoya]

I feel that saying that the xmen should go back to coexistence paints a negative on krakoa's existence/inclusion. The xmen don't need to only be living on the main continents for coexistence to work.

The idea of Krakoa is very specifically that they are separate from the human world and not a part of it. Every single mutant has diplomatic immunity that basically makes them sovereign citizens who can do basically anything but murder and face no consequences. (And even then the ones who do murder usually didn't get punished)

[Wiccan]

Yes but the frustrating thing is that Marvel doesn't allow for any real progress to happen and for them to get closer to it.

[Devaishwarya]

Okay. So you’re not advocating for tribalism then? Rather isolationism? Sequestration? What would you call your approach?

I'm not advocating for any of the above. Krakoa was not isolationist, going by those early stories, far from it. Arakko could be considered sequestered but that was out of necessity for the safety of the Earth.

My approach is simply to exist and live and be allowed to do so respectfully and peacefully wherever they decide to do so. Sure, you'd have the odd hate-motivated organisation or two making noise and trouble but for the most part every one else would just go about their normal business with the understanding that there are bad mutants and there are good mutants, just as there are bad humans and there are good humans in the world. Just as in "the Real World outside my window."

(Except in very recent times you do have governments actively pursuing the decimation and extermination of whole groups and nations of people so...still doesn't mean that's the only story that can be written)

[Nicoclaws]

Krakoa was not about no coexistence, it was about protection and thriving under it.
It's been stated multiple times throughout the era that Xavier and most X-men still believe in coexistence. Krakoa just gave them tools to even exist.

[gonnagiveittoya]

You can't have "the world outside your window" in a utopian paradise island where everyone is rich, immortal, and self declared sovereigns of the solar system

[gonnagiveittoya]

It'd really hard to buy the coexistence argument when there are nearly a dozen times they come into conflict with humans, almost always who are well respected heroes and ostensibly their friends, because humans are banned from Krakoa outright

[Alan2099]

Nope not even close. It was never a vs issue, it was never that particular issue. There are many ethnic communities that live and thrive within vast cities and do so peacefully and respectfully and celebrated, by each other. Just as there are Nations of one type of Ethnicity that exist, peacefully (for the most part) in the world.

The Dream of peaceful coexistence, whether in your own Nation or in a Metropolitan city or a quaint village, only has value if it is actually given the chance to become a reality. As Brevoort and Co. are so fond of telling us...That's never going to happen.

So what's the point? Are the X-Men expected to continue fighting a battle that's already lost?

As victims of hatred and abuse, are mutants expected to live in peace with the perpetrators of said abuse and violence? Would you tell a physically abused woman that she has no choice but to return to her abuser?

Why should Mutants be the ones to extend the olive branch every time, only to be whipped with said branch? Where is the accountability and effort from the human side?

Typically speaking, heroes try to do the right thing, even if it's hard while villains are the ones that try to impose their will over others. The X-men have become far too similar to Magneto's Brotherhood or the Acolytes over the years.

The x-books (and some of it's fans) love to mention all the countless times humans have supposedly ruined mutants lives, the X-books are sure quick to dismiss anytime mutants have attacked and killed humans, or rewritten reality so they rule, taken over the solar system and declared themselves the new rulers, wiped out entire civilizations (I'm looking at you Apocalypse), risked the entire world because they were unhappy with mutants not having powers, an pretty much every single moment of Sabretooth's life.

The idea of Krakoa is very specifically that they are separate from the human world and not a part of it. Every single mutant has diplomatic immunity that basically makes them sovereign citizens who can do basically anything but murder and face no consequences. (And even then the ones who do murder usually didn't get punished)

That, and the fact that they welcomed people that have body counts higher than some wars and told them "Well, that's all in the past now. Tell me you won't murder anymore and we'll forget everything bad you ever did."

[The Thunderbird]

Duggan's X-Men were certainly believing in the dream, at least before the Fall of X where everyone had to fight and kill to survive. Krakoa was a society as a whole and what they believe in doesn't have to match up with what the X-Men believe in.

[Devaishwarya]

You can't have "the world outside your window" in a utopian paradise island where everyone is rich, immortal, and self declared sovereigns of the solar system

Krakoa was far from Utopian. As some writers presented.
Krakoa didn't have an equitable distribution of wealth and socio-economic strata. You had the QC who were the financial backing and you had everyone else.
Krakoans died. And while they had the means to be resurrected, outside of the main characters, how many of the regular Krakoans caught in the crossfires were actually brought back?
Krakoa was not Sovereign of anything...that was Arakko. Which is a very different conversation.

Your interpretations of these things seems to be quite...different.

[Devaishwarya]

It'd really hard to buy the coexistence argument when there are nearly a dozen times they come into conflict with humans, almost always who are well respected heroes and ostensibly their friends, because humans are banned from Krakoa outright

Again..a very different interpretation of what was actually written in the books.

And as I read through...I should have realised earlier that this is yet another "Krakoa is Doomed" thread...so I will not bother anymore.

[Alan2099]

Krakoa was not Sovereign of anything...that was Arakko. Which is a very different conversation.

So, when different groups of mutants do things it doesn't count as a "mutant thing" but everything bad humans do falls under the big Human umbrella? Doesn't quite seem fair.