POLL: Should "The Dream" Come Back Post-Krakoa

[Devaishwarya]

no, the dream is the "one more day" of mutants since the cycle of genocide was triggered by the editorial, it no longer has any meaning since humans have:

- enslaved 15 million Genosha mutants using them as resources to be exhausted and killed once useless without it posing the slightest problem to the human government who just shrugged their shoulders when the Genosha mutants were genocided by sentries because of cassandra and the trask son

- exterminate 3000 mutants in concentration camps in Canada

- destroyed the school several times, hunting and killing the mutants of New York

- took advantage of mday and the fact that there are 298 mutants and therefore no longer "a threat" to try to definitively exterminate them with sentinels

- attacked and chased away the mutants who had taken refuge in San Francisco to try a new life in collaboration with humans

- burned babies alive to try to kill hope summers at birth

- stryker massacred 52 students who no longer even had their powers, most of whom were not even over 10 years old, all this while several months before xavier stopped kitty from killing stryker who had nevertheless killed mutants because he you have to believe in the dream, there is surely good in him lol kitty let her go because she is a heroine and he thanked the mutants with another massacre

- attacked utopia and killed mutants several times, viruses, nimrod sentinel, bastion and other attacks while the mutants tried to live in peace no longer seeing any other solution to be safe from human persecution

- had no problem seeing mutants die because of terrigen, had no problem with the inhumans creating their own nation which makes the hatred against krakoa completely ridiculous

- shouted with joy at the disappearance of the x-men in age of x and took advantage of their disappearance to track down and kill all the mutants rhane killed in a park and refusing to defend herself to show that she is a good mutant... loa and other young mutants hunted and killed by humans, blindfold committing suicide for the same reason not to mention forcing children to take "the vaccine" to erase the x gene.
Emma was ready to erase the memory of humans from the planet so that they forget the existence of mutants

- shouted their hatred for mutants when they built Krakoa to live in peace despite the fact that they sold medicine to humans curing several diseases, shouted robbery when the mutants terraformed Mars, shouted with joy when the eternals were getting ready to genocide krakoa and arakko

- despite the fact that the mutants are giving access to resurrection to certain humans, they ended up succeeding in destroying Krakoa thanks to Orchis and Xavier and have a stupid dream causing the entire Krakoan population to disappear and have hunted, killed, denounced and deported the mutants from the entire planet with the complicity of all world governments

and all this while the x-men have saved the earth and humanity countless times even during krakoa when nothing forced them to do so


After all that, all the massacres perpetrated by humans if even creating your own nation to live in peace, if even leaving the planet to go to Mars is not enough for humans to stop killing them, that there is is there anything else to do? why should mutants continue to believe in xavier's dream which is obsolete and stupid and a danger for mutants it is more than masochism at this level it has become totally absurd.

Because of the editorial and their obsession with the cycle of genocide, the mutants are written as eternal victims under Stockholm syndrome who after each genocide continue to believe in Xavier's dream like idiots and to protect their oppressors to hope for their approval while this so that it ends each time in genocide.

With each genocide the mutants continue again and again to play the heroes with their dreams which allow humans again and again to kill innocent mutant civilians who are the first victims of Xavier's dream and who, unlike the x-men, do not come back to life, which for me ended up making the x-men detestable who, through their choices of playing heroes by refusing to eliminate their enemies and continuing to believe in the dream, contributed to the death of many mutants alone x-force ultimately was there to protect the mutants once they were unfortunately too late.

The editorial has so twisted the cycle of genocide in an unhealthy way that it has made xavier's dream obsolete, stupid and disgusting it no longer has any interest, if hickman had not come with krakoa I would have stopped the x -men for this reason unfortunately brevoort will bring us back to this mediocrity...

Xavier's dream died long before Krakoa who only drove the last nail into the coffin but Brevoort will start writing mutants again as miserable victims under Stockholm syndrome as if nothing had happened and we will have mutant porn genocide again.
Why do I, the reader, want to read again this cycle of genocide and the mutant who protects those who hates and fears but who believes in the dream when I already know that he has been dead for a long time thanks to Marvel humans and the editorial, everything that awaits mutants are not the realization of the dream but a new genocide in stories that have already been seen and re-watched and which no longer have anything to tell like Xavier's dream.

Exactatiously!!!

[danielsan52]

Tobias Messenger had an idea:

Tobias Messenger traveled the world looking for other mutants like himself who would be able to influence world events through their concerted efforts. Messenger succeeded in finding a few mutant allies, but none of whom were very powerful compared to the original group of X-Men and their contemporaries (a difference that Messenger attributed to the dawn of atomic power during the 20th century).

Messenger credits his original group of mutant with bringing a quicker end to the first World War. However, his allies either died or moved on to other endeavors leaving Messenger alone again. At this point he decided to place himself in suspended animation, emerging once every ten years, he would seek out new mutants to join his cause.

Messenger formed the Promise during the 1930s to 40s in an attempt to protect mutants from prejudice.[2] He believed that a war between mutants and baseline humans was inevitable, and although mutants were certain to emerge victorious in the conflict, the result would be chaos as various mutant factions would form and begin to fight with each other.

Messenger had hoped to take a leadership position in this post-war, mutant controlled world.

[Devaishwarya]

BTW...I voted No. Not because the dream is dead...it's isn't. But because it should never take precedence of the Mutants living their fullest and best lives wherever they decide to be...on Arakko, in New York, in London, wherever. Just Live. Just Be.

[gonnagiveittoya]

It's not just a nation, the gates are a form of transport globally that is open to all mutants freely but physically inaccessible to humans, the Resurrection protocols are a form of life insurance or health care however you wanna see it that is open to all mutants and not humans. The society they were creating was not one of coexisting as equals.

They literally declared themselves Gods, that's literally the opposite of the premise of Xaviers dream. It's Apocalypses ideology, not the X-Mens.

[DurararaFTW]

No. I wasn't lumping all humans together...Duggan's X-Men clearly showed cities and communities embracing the mutants who saved them and the Earth from lethal threats.

And Krakoa was a sovereign nation with all the rights thereof, as any other sovereign nation...like Wakanda, Latveria, like America.

As with Sovereign nations...you can have dual citizenship. Or, you could be a living, and working in Trinidad and Tobago but have British Citizenship and vice versa. Krakoa was never given the opportunity to develop and become a functioning global Nation. It was never meant to be. Like I said...Hickman, JDW and Orchis had different plans.

Genosha was not destroyed by a human but by a mutant, but all humans regardless of nationality have to wait in line behind all mutants, regardless of nationality to be eligible for resurrection. Even if one accepts Magneto's racial purification of Genosha was 100% complete prior to Cassandra Nova's attacks, there are definitely humans that DID get killed by man made Sentinels that aren't allowed to be resurrected before the mutants that were killed by mutant made Sentinels, regardless of whether Cerebro had scanned any of them yet because it is deemed humanity's crime. This lumps all of humanity into one offending pile and all of mutantkind in another. Latvera and Wakanda have technological advantages but they, unlike Krakoan advantages actually are implemented along national lines, not inherit to whether you were born human or mutant to parents of any nationality anywhere on the world.

Regardless of what Krakoa wasn't allowed to be due to being destroyed so soon, Krakoa very much was what Moira intended it: Professor X and the X-Men meeting Magneto and his Brotherhood of Evil Mutants halfway at least.

[Jackraow21]

So… integration versus tribalism is where we’re at in these books, huh? Yeah, that tracks.

[Frontier]

The narrative will never allow the Dream to progress, and situations can only go backwards. Co-existence can never be achieved. Even if you look at it from an in-universe perspective there's more than enouygh evidence to believe thay the dream is nothing but a pipe dream.

At this point just kill the humans, who cares at this point

Well, some of the X-Men do have human friends .

[Devaishwarya]

So… integration versus tribalism is where we’re at in these books, huh? Yeah, that tracks.

Nope not even close. It was never a vs issue, it was never that particular issue. There are many ethnic communities that live and thrive within vast cities and do so peacefully and respectfully and celebrated, by each other. Just as there are Nations of one type of Ethnicity that exist, peacefully (for the most part) in the world.

The Dream of peaceful coexistence, whether in your own Nation or in a Metropolitan city or a quaint village, only has value if it is actually given the chance to become a reality. As Brevoort and Co. are so fond of telling us...That's never going to happen.

So what's the point? Are the X-Men expected to continue fighting a battle that's already lost?

As victims of hatred and abuse, are mutants expected to live in peace with the perpetrators of said abuse and violence? Would you tell a physically abused woman that she has no choice but to return to her abuser?

Why should Mutants be the ones to extend the olive branch every time, only to be whipped with said branch? Where is the accountability and effort from the human side?

[cranger]

Nope not even close. It was never a vs issue, it was never that particular issue. There are many ethnic communities that live and thrive within vast cities and do so peacefully and respectfully and celebrated, by each other. Just as there are Nations of one type of Ethnicity that exist, peacefully (for the most part) in the world.

The Dream of peaceful coexistence, whether in your own Nation or in a Metropolitan city or a quaint village, only has value if it is actually given the chance to become a reality. As Brevoort and Co. are so fond of telling us...That's never going to happen.

So what's the point? Are the X-Men expected to continue fighting a battle that's already lost?

As victims of hatred and abuse, are mutants expected to live in peace with the perpetrators of said abuse and violence? Would you tell a physically abused woman that she has no choice but to return to her abuser?

Why should Mutants be the ones to extend the olive branch every time, only to be whipped with said branch? Where is the accountability and effort from the human side?

The only thing that matters is the story the current writer gives us. I don't care what crap we have had to deal with for the last twenty years. Give us better stories and just ignore the bad ones. Every writer who came in the last two decades just ignored the good stories so let's move on in the other direction. I get the RL feelings on this one, but this is 'disposable' fiction and we get to handwave away stuff pretty easy.

[JB]

You know what you can do then.

I hesitated posting in this thread cause I knew the OP would police it and argue down people's opinions under the guise of a "poll." It's a beautiful day in this tropical locale so I'll be by the pool waiting for next week's previews and staying out of this meat grinder of a trap.

[Jackraow21]

Nope not even close. It was never a vs issue, it was never that particular issue. There are many ethnic communities that live and thrive within vast cities and do so peacefully and respectfully and celebrated, by each other. Just as there are Nations of one type of Ethnicity that exist, peacefully (for the most part) in the world.

The Dream of peaceful coexistence, whether in your own Nation or in a Metropolitan city or a quaint village, only has value if it is actually given the chance to become a reality. As Brevoort and Co. are so fond of telling us...That's never going to happen.

So what's the point? Are the X-Men expected to continue fighting a battle that's already lost?

As victims of hatred and abuse, are mutants expected to live in peace with the perpetrators of said abuse and violence? Would you tell a physically abused woman that she has no choice but to return to her abuser?

Why should Mutants be the ones to extend the olive branch every time, only to be whipped with said branch? Where is the accountability and effort from the human side?

Okay. So you’re not advocating for tribalism then? Rather isolationism? Sequestration? What would you call your approach?

[Til]

Do people not understand that Krakoa was itself a form of co-existence. Yes mutants had their own nation, but they still very much interacted with humanity politically and economically.

This is what I was going to post. Mutants were still peacefully coexisting with humans during Krakoa. They had economic ties with human nations, diplomatic ties, and the Gateways were placed all over the planet, so mutants could visit human cities and towns all the time. The only difference is that there was now a place where mutants could live, Krakoa, where they didn't have to worry about facing discrimination. Where they could walk around and not have to keep an eye out for the local Friends of Humanity chapter following them down a dark street. It was basically the Mansion on a larger scale: an optional safe-haven for mutants.

[Jackraow21]

This is what I was going to post. Mutants were still peacefully coexisting with humans during Krakoa. They had economic ties with human nations, diplomatic ties, and the Gateways were placed all over the planet, so mutants could visit human cities and towns all the time. The only difference is that there was now a place where mutants could live, Krakoa, where they didn't have to worry about facing discrimination. Where they could walk around and not have to keep an eye out for the local Friends of Humanity chapter following them down a dark street. It was basically the Mansion on a larger scale: an optional safe-haven for mutants.

Yeah, I suppose that’s a fair take. They’re co-existing, just as their own nation. Or at least they were trying to. I can see that.

[Devaishwarya]

The only thing that matters is the story the current writer gives us. I don't care what crap we have had to deal with for the last twenty years. Give us better stories and just ignore the bad ones. Every writer who came in the last two decades just ignored the good stories so let's move on in the other direction. I get the RL feelings on this one, but this is 'disposable' fiction and we get to handwave away stuff pretty easy.

This (the bolded) was my response as well on Twitter. There are more stories, better stories and different stories that can be told instead of "battling hatred and fear and facing extinction every five years"...if only the writers would think beyond that trope. To which I was told, by a Marvel writer: Superheroes' lives are based on misery and pain and suffering.

[AJpyro]

THe options are too biased against Krakoa.