POLL: Should "The Dream" Come Back Post-Krakoa

[gonnagiveittoya]

So, when different groups of mutants do things it doesn't count as a "mutant thing" but everything bad humans do falls under the big Human umbrella? Doesn't quite seem fair.

DING DING DING DING DING

EXACTLY. Humans get written off collectively as a motivation literally in every book, but generalizations the other way around don't count for some reason. Hell just look at FF/X-Men where the whole conflict started because they just wouldn't let Reed and Sue visit the island to see if it's safe for Franklin because they're humans

[Gray Lensman]

I dunno. I feel like the dream became almost unreachable once the extinction level threat stories started. Maybe around Decimation. It feels like it's been mostly about surviving since then. If we can take a break from immediate extinction threats then maybe coexistence can come into view again.

Pretty much this, especially now that every single storyline seems to circle back around to extinction. Marvel editorial needs to put a hard 10 year long moratorium on extinction stories.

[Magnetic]

It's a tragedy for me to see the dream is over.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Krakoa was far from Utopian. As some writers presented.
Krakoa didn't have an equitable distribution of wealth and socio-economic strata. You had the QC who were the financial backing and you had everyone else.
Krakoans died. And while they had the means to be resurrected, outside of the main characters, how many of the regular Krakoans caught in the crossfires were actually brought back?
Krakoa was not Sovereign of anything...that was Arakko. Which is a very different conversation.

Your interpretations of these things seems to be quite...different.

The sovereign of The Solar System was a member of the Krakoan government, so yes it does count

[nx01a]

It's a tragedy for me to see the dream is over.

Girl, I'm gonna miss you.

[Rev9]

It's a tragedy for me to see the dream is over.

Lol good one , now can we have the Grammy back?

[nx01a]

I genuinely believe that coexistence is the way to go. The problem is that it's always one way. Coexistence can only work if humans are also shown making tangible efforts to integrate and accept mutants.

[Exciter]

I genuinely believe that coexistence is the way to go. The problem is that it's always one way. Coexistence can only work if humans are also shown making tangible efforts to integrate and accept mutants.

I always thought the “Unity Team” made up of X-Men and Avengers was a good idea to show this kind of integration (and give prominent X and A characters something to do if they’re not on their main independent teams).

[cranger]

I always thought the “Unity Team” made up of X-Men and Avengers was a good idea to show this kind of integration (and give prominent X and A characters something to do if they’re not on their main independent teams).

That was the worst kind of integration and the first story following up AvX which was supposed to be the rebirth of the mutant gene and an age of hope had Red Skull harvesting Xavier's brain and inspiring fear and hatred of mutants across the globe. Exactly what the books did not need but the exact kind of thing that makes the writer think the unity team concept is the right direction.

What worked was Beast on Avengers (Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch arguably). Iceman and Angel on Defenders. Marvel Boy and Firestar on New Warriors. Just let characters with a mutant origin, tied to the X-Men directly or not at all, show up without all the baggage. The only 'extinction' the mutants have ever really faced was corporate trying to erase them from marketing. That is done and over, time for the X-Men to step into the spot light and for the many characters born from their stories to make their presence known across the MU again.

[OG Storm]

Let's just be honest for a second. The dream failed mutants by every metric. It's designed to maintain a status quo of humans maintaining power to do what they want when they want. There are too many crazy humans out there that are willing to genocide mutants with the money and backing and super science to destroy them. It's not a fair fight for the average mutant. That doesn't even include the special ones. There has to be a new dream, one predicated on mutual equality much like threshold was.

[cranger]

The "Dream" was based on protecting the world from evil mutants who wanted to take over. Magneto and everyone who followed. At some point most of the world threatening level mutant villains were taken out of the equation, causing the imbalance and 'genocidal' enemies were constantly created to fill the void. All they need to do is go back to good mutants fighting evil mutants. Just like everyone else gets to fight villains who are villains just to take over the world or cheat at a nobel prize, the X-Men can too. It is about a different way of telling stories, not rationalizing the last twenty years of stories that took a different direction.

[Wolverine12]

I think the question itself is flawed because I don’t think the Dream ever went away. Scott gave up being Captain Commander and Jean left the QC so they could pursue the dream as the X-Men and they literally had people fighting to be on the team every year during the elections at the HFG. Did Xavier abandon his methods, sure he did, but he still wanted peaceful co-existence, he just tried a new path. I don’t think the dream was ever not central to the X-Men. Maybe it wasn’t central to the QC, or at least it wasn’t central to the majority of its members but some members still were fighting for it the whole time.

[Alan2099]

Let's just be honest for a second. The dream failed mutants by every metric. It's designed to maintain a status quo of humans maintaining power to do what they want when they want. There are too many crazy humans out there that are willing to genocide mutants with the money and backing and super science to destroy them. It's not a fair fight for the average mutant. That doesn't even include the special ones. There has to be a new dream, one predicated on mutual equality much like threshold was.

I don't see how that's honest at all. For starters, you're ignoring the basic fact that mutants are humans. A mutant and a human both born and raised in Ne Jersey would have a lot more in common than a mutant raised in New Jersey and a mutant raised in Ireland, but the comics keep trying to tell us differently.

There are too many crazy humans out there that are willing to genocide mutants with the money and backing and super science to destroy them.

And this argument ignores every single mutant supervillain the X-men have fought. They don't even need the super science. Some mutants just got "hey! I suddenly have powers. I'm going to star ripping things up for fun," and again the average human has no chance. Do you think humans shouldn't have any way of fighting back against people like Magneto, Sabretooth, or Apocalypse?

[Gray Lensman]

I think the question itself is flawed because I don’t think the Dream ever went away. Scott gave up being Captain Commander and Jean left the QC so they could pursue the dream as the X-Men and they literally had people fighting to be on the team every year during the elections at the HFG. Did Xavier abandon his methods, sure he did, but he still wanted peaceful co-existence, he just tried a new path. I don’t think the dream was ever not central to the X-Men. Maybe it wasn’t central to the QC, or at least it wasn’t central to the majority of its members but some members still were fighting for it the whole time.

To be honest, I don't think Scott truly gave up on the Dream even at his darkest (Fraction through Bendis), although he did give up an believing there would be a place in it for him for a while.

Going back to earlier posts about the unity team, I think that could work, but it needs to truly have a mutant leading it, which means Cap probably can't also be on the team. And it can't become some alternate timeline that gets reset at the end - the stories it tells need to truly matter after they are over. And for a couple of the massive events, that Unity Team needs to be the leads, not second fiddle to the "actual" Avengers. And be seen as taking the lead by the public.

[OG Storm]

I don't see how that's honest at all. For starters, you're ignoring the basic fact that mutants are humans. A mutant and a human both born and raised in Ne Jersey would have a lot more in common than a mutant raised in New Jersey and a mutant raised in Ireland, but the comics keep trying to tell us differently.

but that's the point. Mutants have universal experiences across state lines. That's what the comics keep telling us. Either you believe it or you don't.

And this argument ignores every single mutant supervillain the X-men have fought. They don't even need the super science. Some mutants just got "hey! I suddenly have powers. I'm going to star ripping things up for fun," and again the average human has no chance. Do you think humans shouldn't have any way of fighting back against people like Magneto, Sabretooth, or Apocalypse?

They are the smallest part of the mutant population. Why would they be included when they statistically don't amount to much? Let's be real for a minute if humans were just using their tech to fight back against supervillianwe wouldn't be having this discussion. They never stop. The x-men are there to stop supervillaians especially when humans can't.