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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    [/B]

    The problem is that the current “kids” aren’t supposed to be kids anymore and can’t play that “inexperienced, new to being a mutant” role anymore. I explicitly remember the complaints when Ayala was using Anole and folks that she was writing him to sound too young.
    This is a great point.

    Here's the thing: There is nothing wrong with having lots of mutants. There is a LOT wrong with having lots of X-Men. I appreciate that the X-Men are the heroes. I don't want every mutant to know how to be, or even want to be, a hero. We need mutants who need saving and not be one of the extremely few X-Men.

    However, it's the problem of editorial that they perpetually continue to age up youth too quickly and force themselves to produce more and more "new generations". Just let let youth be youth for a while. As much fun as it was watching the kids take down Nimrod, they really couldn't go back from there to kids who couldn't control their powers. They tried, like with Elixir developing his onyx skin, and Hellion evolving to too powerful, etc. But then they showed Pixie graduate later, when she was one of the youngest. The original X-Men and the New Mutants got to be young and inexperienced for a very long time.
    Queen of Mutants, Mistress of Magnetism, Magnetrix and the MII, Pestilence of the Horsemen of Apocalypse, the Krakoan Oracle and creator of the Sanctus Sacrum Tournament Key, the Threshold Seed Shaper, Brood Queen of the Fall of the House of X, Lorna Sally Dane, Ph.D., of the House of M, Polaris of the X-Men

  2. #32

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    I hope they can as they were my intro to x-men comics. I was hoping the 6160 universe would give them a spotlight.

    Their problem is just the status quo is stagnant nature of the big two. Which is what every group of young heroes suffer against.

    There's always the solo approach but the X-men are built as an ensemble so I don't know if they could branch out that way.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 04-02-2024 at 06:26 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    The problem is that the current “kids” aren’t supposed to be kids anymore and can’t play that “inexperienced, new to being a mutant” role anymore. I explicitly remember the complaints when Ayala was using Anole and folks that she was writing him to sound too young.
    The writers and/or editorial seem to think that X-men comics need constant new stories of the young and inexperienced mutants, even though they allready have 4+ generations worth of them by now. Perhaps because it's percieved as a grand tradition to the IP, which needs to be present in every start of a new direction or they think "new readers" need new versions of the stories.

    But it's all for something arguably trapped in a rotten outdated publishing system which aims for perpetuity and grand stories, while also trying to maintain a singular continuity among dozen of titles and at an extremely slowed down progression of time.

    Which wasn't as much of a problem for the first 30 years of publishing when there were barely 1 or 2 titles, meaning less overall concurrently occuring events and developments and the slowed down passage of time felt more focused.

    This also meant that nobody in charge or among the buyership ever seems to have a reason to step back and consider if the stories, characters and developments are outgrowing the system's ability to support or function with them anymore, especially if it's getting overtaxed with more and more titles.

    And then for the next 30 years the publisher kept to the system and successfully drove it into the ground, while the small dedicated hobbiest and collectors stubbornly kept it alive.

    So now neither can or wants to imagine how it could be done anyway differently.

    Hardly any story becomes "definitive" anymore, only the first 30 years are remembered and celebrated, nothing is achieved longterm, no change can truely occur to the world, nobody grows old, but there are constantly new characters and new earth shattering adventures which are supposed to demand the same attention as the old, but can't do so.

    Most of the few buyers still around have seemingly trapped themself in primarily wanting to see more of who they allready liked or who's stories they greatly enjoyed in the past, but what they get is seldomly ever making them happy again, because these characters allready had their best stories told decades ago and too much feels like repetition, regression or inferior to what allready happend (in part because of less capable writers and artist though).
    Meanwhile the publisher is obliging them, because they can't get anyone else to buy their product now.

    So who are these new characters and their stories of being inexperienced and young supposed to appeal to anymore? Because there isn't a significant generation of new and young readers anymore for whom these would be "their" definitive young characters and stories again.

    Having traditions can be nice and be part of the "foundation" of a franchise or IP. But for Marvel and the X-men these traditions have lost much of their value and meaning.
    Last edited by Grunty; 04-02-2024 at 08:34 AM.

  4. #34
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    We don't know for sure, because editorial for some weird reason hates them and refuses to give them anything.
    I guess, if Laura is the lead, they'll be fine. If it's without her or some other popular lead, then it's more unpredictable.

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    The writers and/or editorial seem to think that X-men comics need constant new stories of the young and inexperienced mutants, even though they allready have 4+ generations worth of them by now. Perhaps because it's percieved as a grand tradition to the IP, which needs to be present in every start of a new direction or they think "new readers" need new versions of the stories.

    But it's all for something arguably trapped in a rotten outdated publishing system which aims for perpetuity and grand stories, while also trying to maintain a singular continuity among dozen of titles and at an extremely slowed down progression of time.

    Which wasn't as much of a problem for the first 30 years of publishing when there were barely 1 or 2 titles, meaning less overall concurrently occuring events and developments and the slowed down passage of time felt more focused.

    This also meant that nobody in charge or among the buyership ever seems to have a reason to step back and consider if the stories, characters and developments are outgrowing the system's ability to support or function with them anymore, especially if it's getting overtaxed with more and more titles.

    And then for the next 30 years the publisher kept to the system and successfully drove it into the ground, while the small dedicated hobbiest and collectors stubbornly kept it alive.

    So now neither can or wants to imagine how it could be done anyway differently.

    Hardly any story becomes "definitive" anymore, only the first 30 years are remembered and celebrated, nothing is achieved longterm, no change can truely occur to the world, nobody grows old, but there are constantly new characters and new earth shattering adventures which are supposed to demand the same attention as the old, but can't do so.

    Most of the few buyers still around have seemingly trapped themself in primarily wanting to see more of who they allready liked or who's stories they greatly enjoyed in the past, but what they get is seldomly ever making them happy again, because these characters allready had their best stories told decades ago and too much feels like repetition, regression or inferior to what allready happend (in part because of less capable writers and artist though).
    Meanwhile the publisher is obliging them, because they can't get anyone else to buy their product now.

    So who are these new characters and their stories of being inexperienced and young supposed to appeal to anymore? Because there isn't a significant generation of new and young readers anymore for whom these would be "their" definitive young characters and stories again.

    Having traditions can be nice and be part of the "foundation" of a franchise or IP. But for Marvel and the X-men these traditions have lost much of their value and meaning.
    Yeah, continuity resets devalue the story that FOLLOWS them, NOt the story that got mercilessly retconned into oblivion. fans who read the story that got obliterated by a retcon... will still hold it dear in their heart.... and probably despise what comes after it.

    This is why certain of the older runs are so highly prized... NOTHING in them ruined what came before.

    And well... this is why DBZ has an internal date.... not an EXACT date mind you but it has one. This way it always moves forwards. And in-universe several decades have elapsed. Characters grow older, and maybe die. Yes, the series is infamous for magic revivals, but it's not a full reset. You can merely DELAY the inevitable. Not today, but some day.....

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    What I hate most is that they keep on developing new kids. They will add 3 new ones to Kitty's team and 4 new ones to Rogue's team. I think that this is ridiculous. We have so many Young X-Men/ students already. About time to use them, instead of developing more kids that will then no longer be used after the writers depart. I wish writers would stop wanting to make their mark with creating new mutant kids, instead of showing how great they could develop current kids more.
    This.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    [/B]

    The problem is that the current “kids” aren’t supposed to be kids anymore and can’t play that “inexperienced, new to being a mutant” role anymore. I explicitly remember the complaints when Ayala was using Anole and folks complained that they were writing him to sound too young.
    I get what you're saying but even though the kid X-Men should be older at this point doesn't mean that they have experience.

    You can hand a 50 year old a gun and a badge doesn't mean they can go out as solve crimes.
    Idea's Open Discussion And Growth. Silencing Idea's Confirms Them To Be True In The Minds Of Those Who Hold Them. The Attempt Of Eliminating Idea's Proves You To Be A Fool.

  7. #37
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    While I didn't care for most of them, and hated the direction they took with Rahne in those books, I do find myself hoping characters that have fan followings get another shot. Sure would help if "new kid characters" weren't being added all the damn time.
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  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    You can hand a 50 year old a gun and a badge doesn't mean they can go out as solve crimes.
    You need a gun to solve crimes?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    You need a gun to solve crimes?
    So you can threaten witnesses if they don't comply
    2024: The Year of Hellion

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Arachne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufio View Post
    They need three things and it could possibly happen: a good writer, a good artist, and good marketing.

    It is possible, the Academy X kids just need to be given a good chance.
    I don't disagree, but the odds of that happening are slim to none.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    What I hate most is that they keep on developing new kids. They will add 3 new ones to Kitty's team and 4 new ones to Rogue's team. I think that this is ridiculous. We have so many Young X-Men/ students already. About time to use them, instead of developing more kids that will then no longer be used after the writers depart. I wish writers would stop wanting to make their mark with creating new mutant kids, instead of showing how great they could develop current kids more.
    Total agreement.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    What I hate most is that they keep on developing new kids. They will add 3 new ones to Kitty's team and 4 new ones to Rogue's team. I think that this is ridiculous. We have so many Young X-Men/ students already. About time to use them, instead of developing more kids that will then no longer be used after the writers depart. I wish writers would stop wanting to make their mark with creating new mutant kids, instead of showing how great they could develop current kids more.
    Agreed.

    Ten characters.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post

    Ten characters.
    No, seven. Three in Emma's team, four in Rogue's team.


    Sorry...
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    They had their window. It came and went. They were created too late. NM's had 100 issues then turned into X-Force. Generation X had a solid 75 issues, then dissolved. The Academy kids were a byproduct of the Foxmen/Morrison big school era(also riding on the Harry Potter craze), which was basically the end of the preeminent X-Men era(its been on a decline since). So, since Marvel didn't continue them strongly, and it's now been a decade or two since their debut, I don't think they can come back into vogue. The new writers will just introduce their own new mutants, maybe peppering in Quire and Oya, and that's it.

    It's rough being an X-Kid, and that generation is basically where they jumped the shark and introduced waaaaayyy too many. Now that Disney is reinvigorating the IP with '97, that generation is going to be even further back in the line behind the perennial O5/Giant Sized crew, the OG NM(like Sunspot and Magik), and even the Generation Xers have a better shot.
    Sorry Academy kids.
    Are there any possible changes to make to the characters, either as a group or individually, to overcome this problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    I think with a good writer and good artist they can definitely go 12 issues.

    All we ever wanted was a maxi series in the Krakoa era. Well I did. But yeah editorial keeps saying they dont sell but keep green lighting other books that dont have star power either.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealWashout View Post
    I think any team can support a book with the right premise and writer. I'd love to see them as the new X-Force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    Yes I think New/Young X-Men had it to be an ongoing. See how long the first time went. Worth the right writer and artist, it could last a long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by scourge View Post
    They definitely can.
    Problem is that editorial refuses to let them. Give them a run with a good writer and artist and don't let event nonsense screw it up and they'd do spectacularly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufio View Post
    They need three things and it could possibly happen: a good writer, a good artist, and good marketing.

    It is possible, the Academy X kids just need to be given a good chance.
    Any ideas for a creative team (and potential story premise) that could reach that needed sales target?

    Also, would 12 issues still be considered an ongoing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    NOPE.

    New Mutants? Sure. Gen-X? Maybe...be tough but they can get it done. Academy-X? Little to no faith.

    My reasoning? They came in during a time period were the writing wasn't as strong and every one and everything around them was more interesting. I believe the only way a successful Academy team could operate is if 3-4 of the students were split up in the main X-Squads . Then they get some serious work done in those titles so they can spin-out of those books. But even then you would be rolling the dice.
    What, for example, are potential character developments or progression to their overall character arcs that you feel could get them to that level?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChildOfTheAtom View Post
    probably have to wait for a writer to fight for them that has nostalgia for that run
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    All it takes is one writer who's passionate about the characters. It might be harder to get them all together as a team again, but as individual characters all they need is a writer who wants to use them, like MacKay with Idie.
    That writer would still need to reliably reach a certain sales target though.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Not a chance in hell.

    There are plenty of good characters (Hellion excluded, of course), yes.

    But at the end of the day, creative directions for franchises change on a dime. Some big shot gets a brainfart, and the series will be cancelled and characters cast into limbo.

    I mean, hell, how many times has that happened already?

    And everyone knows this.

    So no one would read it, expecting it to get canned. And guess what would happen...!
    But would editorial allow this to happen to a book that's selling well enough (or even gangbusters)?
    Last edited by The Lame Ugly Looking Joke; 04-04-2024 at 08:48 AM.

  14. #44

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    I guess we'll get an answer to this question soon.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lame Ugly Looking Joke View Post

    Any ideas for a creative team (and potential story premise) that could reach that needed sales target?

    Also, would 12 issues still be considered an ongoing?
    12 issues get you two trades or SUPPOSE to get you two.

    I know this idea would get looked DOWN on but....

    Is there NOTHING saying we can take Hellion, Surge, Prodigy and maybe 5-7 more and dump them in a college?

    Target say a 25 issue run of the kids balancing college and being mutants (on the DL)?

    In other words what I am trying for is a book in the vein of Legacies, Dc Super Hero Girls, House of Anbus and Gotham Academy.

    Set them by themselves and even OPEN the door for OTHERS of that age (and not mutants) to pop in and out.

    With it being college you can rotate out folks.

    Something that will warrant a break at say issue 25 and can pop back up for a mini or one shot or Voices issue.

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