There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!
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Lots of great points made ITT but I just wanna chime in and say that it is not our place to cast any sort of moral judgment on the statement of survivors. Trauma is like a wound - and it never fully heals. Without experiencing the abuse this person experienced, we can never fully understand what they went through, so any sort of criticism of their language is unfair, so is any insinuation that their words led to the dogpiling that resulted in Ed's death. We should always treat the statements of survivors with grace and recognize that the anger and pain they feel is valid and they should express it how they see fit. Just sharing the experience of abuse on a public platform alone is such a huge step and life altering on its own.
love is the real "success."
Free Palestine! 🇵🇸Ceasefire NOW!
They/Them
Communication certainly occurred, and Molly had legitimate cause to feel uncomfortable due to what was said but whether he intended a sexual relationship to develop(He says he didn't) is ultimately unknown and thus isn't our place to speculate further as if we have any definitive and objective evidence.
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Yeah, God forbid somebody even question whether or not revenge at any cost might be a bad thing.
I also said that I believed her and that she had a right to tell her story. She very clearly was doing more than that and recognizing that is only "armchair" analyzing it if you're extremely naive.
Victim blaming would be me saying what happened was her fault or that she somehow deserved it. I'm not. I'm saying that being a victim doesn't give you the moral right to retaliate in any way you see it or absolve someone of their own wrongdoing. The reason cancel culture HAS gotten so dangerous is because of the attitude that if someone did something wrong, the victim and society can do anything they want to punish them.
You disagree. Youre allowed to, regardless of how condescending and disingenuous your points may be.
Its not an insinuation and I wasn't casting a moral judgement. Yes, her actions unequivocally led to what happened and I just questioned if maybe there should be a line, even when it comes to this kind of thing.
Also, she literally said she was completely fine and just doing this to inform people.
Trauma doesn't give you an excuse to do whatever you want, either. Speaking as someone who was sexually abused at 5 years old and raised by a rage-fueled alcoholic.
My post wasn't directed specifically at you - but I do think it is harmful rhetoric. Grief, and our response to trauma is not linear. There is really no right or wrong way to express your traumatic experience. Like what do you see as "doing whatever you want" in this situation?
love is the real "success."
Free Palestine! 🇵🇸Ceasefire NOW!
They/Them
There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!
I’m not being condescending or disingenuous, I’m just saying that I don’t think we’re entitled to dictate how someone reacts to an emotional experience and that I don’t think doing so is helpful to anyone. You’re welcome to disagree but so far you haven’t provided any reasons for why we should be able to dictate a person’s emotional response that is compelling to me.
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All I ever said was that I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often and that maybe there's a better way to handle it and you said I was victim blaming, that it's morally wrong and harmful to women to even question the way she went about it because she's a victim, and so on.
If a person's emotional response results in another person's death, I think it's normal to say, "Maybe this wasn't a good way to handle it" without you immediately accusing me of victim blaming. We are all responsible for our emotional responses. I wouldn't give myself a pass for doing something wrong as a response to my own trauma. There's no situation in life where you can just write off any behavior as "an emotional response."
By her own words, she's not traumatized and she's fine. She was telling this to "protect our youth," not the motives you're ascribing.
Nobody's trauma gives them a pass. Again, I've suffered abuse and I never once let myself off the hook or thought my actions couldn't be questioned because I was victimized.
Calling someone a pedophile in the public sphere when they didn't even break the law is an irresponsible, incendiary thing to do. I believe her that he had ill intent, but of course he was going to be destroyed by it.
He is ultimately responsible for his own actions. But you guys are acting a lot like Trump's January 6th lawyers in disingenuously pretending that she wasn't deliberately trying to fuck this guy's life up.
Maybe he deserved it. But we've gone from canceling criminals to canceling and demonizing people for legal yet possibly unethical behavior and I think that's something we should question.
Like I said, my whole point was that maybe we should question how we go about these things in society and I get the whole self-righteous speech from you that twists my words. Like a lot of the internet, you're more interested in finding a villain to go after than listen to what I'm actually saying.
I mean, accusing someone of being a pedophile in a public forum is also harmful. And by her own words, she's not traumatized and that wasn't her goal.
I'm not sure what world I've stepped in where having trauma absolves you of any responsibility. I guess I don't have to feel bad about anything shitty I've done in my life in that case. That's a relief, I guess.
And in a sane society, just because you were wronged doesn't give you the moral right to wrong them right back. By that logic, we should just let vigilante justice take precedence over everything else. Do I get to go beat my abuser to a bloody pulp? Where's the line?
I've repeatedly said I believe her and that what he did was wrong. I'm not saying she shouldn't be able to speak up. But the way she did it and the forum she did it in had very clear consequences. No, she's not responsible for her killing himself. However, she absolutely sicced the internet and media onto him. You think that's justified. I'm not so sure.
Last edited by Refrax5; 04-02-2024 at 02:10 PM.
Not really.
People can do things that are wrong but legal.
The age of consent in Pennsylvania is 16. If his interest in her were sexual, it would not have been illegal. Although it would be wrong.
I definitely agree that we should be careful about chilling the speech of victims.
The initial definition of grooming is quite different. The argument about the use of the word to describe LGBTQ+ activists is that category creep on loaded terms like grooming is wrong.
It's a fair point that the substance of what she said matters.
I don't want to read too much about it because a young woman is now involved in a major story because someone else made a horrible decision, but it could be worth looking at the allegation and seeing if her rhetoric matches the claims.
People don't get to be wrong on sensitive topics without anyone calling them out on it.
That's the type of thing that leads to tribalism, groupthink, extreme rhetoric and a loss of perspective.
Sincerely,
Thomas Mets
Well Ed is dead and that’s much worse than feeling unpleasant. And while I don’t think either accuser thought it would come to this I’m sure they knew it would get to the point it did prior to that. Losing work. Losing his collaborator and being mocked and demonized online. It’s 2024, we all know how this plays out. Guilty until proven innocent and even if you are proven innocent the damage has been done.
Read The Flash#1 this September!