What's up with people being anti-Ventriloquist?

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

Ever since Robinson killed off Wesker for no good reason, there has been a reaction against the character and a lot of criticism listing him as a lame character.

I can grant that it would be incredible hard to pull him in a movie, but I think even that could be achieved. Along with the some portrayals of the Mad Hatter, he is a symptom of how low has the Gotham underworld fallen. When one of the crime bosses in a big mobster war uses a freaking puppet as an avatar for his dual personality, it pretty much means havoc reigns.

The idea is not that bad, a criminal genius trapped in the body of a meek. He can be played for laughs or as a threat that at some point looks ridiculous.

One big problem I have seen with the character is that sometimes artists go too far with the puppet. The original was kinda odd, and the recent ones look too much like some cheap 80s horror movie. I think the first BTAS version was perfect and timeless.

[quinnzel]

I have personally always loved The Ventriloquist and Scarface and I think it's a shame that he's so under-used. He had his own criminal following in Broken City where he was actually the head honcho and Scarface was second-in-command. I've always thought the dynamic between Wesker and Scarface was really interesting and he's a character that can both command sympathy (his story in the Mad Love trade paperback, for instance) and be ruthless and evil. Plus, Scarface just lends himself to that old 1940s gangster atmosphere of Gotham.

[nepenthes]

I've seen more people call for Arnie to come back, if anything.

He was originally conceived by Alan Grant and as a Judge Dredd villain - and you can tell, he's gloriously deranged with a wry sense of the satirical that's common to Dredd foes but to Batman. I've always thought he'd be perfect for a more comic reverent film actually - would set the tone for Batman's world immediately and hilariously. After two hours of watching a schmuck with a puppet trip over his B and W's , you'll want Batman fly in and knock his teeth out!

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

I've seen more people call for Arnie to come back, if anything.

He was originally conceived by Alan Grant and as a Judge Dredd villain - and you can tell, he's gloriously deranged with a wry sense of the satirical that's common to Dredd foes but to Batman. I've always thought he'd be perfect for a more comic reverent film actually - would set the tone for Batman's world immediately and hilariously. After two hours of watching a schmuck with a puppet trip over his B and W's , you'll want Batman fly in and knock his teeth out!

I was trying to address the "ventriloquist is lame" trend, which I have noted ever since they killed off Wesker. Hee are some examples:

http://io9.com/batmans-20-least-form...oes-1533476013
http://www.ign.com/articles/2005/06/...atman-villains

[NewMutant]

I think he is a great villain. There is something unique. I recently reread the Dini issues with Peyton which I still enjoyed.

[Nygma]

Part of it might be how the concept has been handled since Wesker's departure, combined with how odd it seems on a surface level. I was skeptical when I first heard about him, but having seen media (be it comics, B:TAS or fan films like Puppet Master) that handle him well there's a lot of value to the character. It's a very easy concept to do badly though

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

Part of it might be how the concept has been handled since Wesker's departure, combined with how odd it seems on a surface level. I was skeptical when I first heard about him, but having seen media (be it comics, B:TAS or fan films like Puppet Master) that handle him well there's a lot of value to the character. It's a very easy concept to do badly though

One think I suspect is that he suffers a lot without Alan Grant. He created a lot of great characters that actually made sense for Arkham, some faded like Amygdala, Ratcatcher, Legs and Cornelius Stirk, and some remained relatively popular but suck under other writers, like the Ventriloquist, Zsasz, Tallyman and Anarky. The later two, have not even been the same incarnation. New writers don't really seem to read the source material.

[The Red Monk]

Much like Victor Zsasz, the Ventriloquist is a very difficult character to get precisely right. Otherwise, he just comes off as hokey, and yes, lame.

Personally, I never considered the character to be very interesting, but I understand that he appeals to some people for some reason.

That being said, if there is a drop-off in his popularity, I won't be too surprised.

[Robotman]

i love the classic Ventriloquist but i really hate the last two female versions.

[deadboy80]

Thanks for the thread. Funny, I just reread some early 90's dc books. Anyway , two of the bat-arcs involved scarface. While reading these tales, I thought, where the Hell is he in the Nu52? They should bring him back. I miss the Gotham underworld as a whole

[victorsage]

A detached personality disorder where the individual creates a different personality to allow the darker elements of his subconscious to run wild, well retaining his own sanity by setting himself up as a victim of said different personality? What's not to love. You just need a writer who has some talent. I mean for the love of God he is basically Norman Bates with a hand puppet that has the personality of one of Hollywood's beloved golden age characters, instead of a dead mother! What isn't to love about the character?

[Kingcrimsonprog]

Personal taste? Different people like different things

[Tupiaz]

I always thought he fit well in to Batman's rogue gallery and that his dual personality was an interesting however I'm a sucker for it. Some would say he reminds to much of a Two-Face however the Ventriloquist is not a fight between good and evil but a split between passive and active.

[exile001]

i love the classic Ventriloquist but i really hate the last two female versions.

QFT!

I also like the idea Grant introduced that the Dummy may be supernatural. Never confirmed (I like the idea of not).

It being supernatural is the only explanation that works without being stupidly contrived in the Dini story, and I really hate the current version.

Fortunately, we've seen Wesker alive in at least two New 52 comics so he's out there somewhere.

[Tupiaz]

QFT!

I also like the idea Grant introduced that the Dummy may be supernatural. Never confirmed (I like the idea of not).

It being supernatural is the only explanation that works without being stupidly contrived in the Dini story, and I really hate the current version.

Fortunately, we've seen Wesker alive in at least two New 52 comics so he's out there somewhere.

I have always found it kind of silly that it should be supernatural at least it should never be stated flat out. The B:TAS is still the best version I have seen.