I Said What I Said And Will Stand By It To The Death!

[Stanlos]

Batman is boring, his rogues gallery is overrated, Joker is insufferable, batfamily is mostly meh..... except Cass and Jason, they are cool. Oh and I don't get the appeal of Dick Grayson. He's like Bruce but without many of his personality flaws which makes Dick even more boring. Ric > Dick

I concur on all but Jason. He feels like a cliche attempt to capture what Azrael was.

[Stanlos]

Replacing fan favourite heroes with legacy characters is bad for business.

It pisses the fanbase off who quit or start reading Marvel.

Boy are their heads going to explode visiting Marvel today. The sheer WTF-ness of it all may given them aneurisms

[TheRay]

I think that the art in comics can vary without harming the overall story.

[Refrax5]

I concur on all but Jason. He feels like a cliche attempt to capture what Azrael was.

Besides being a more violent Batman apprentice, I think Jason and Azrael are VERY different characters with very different personalities, motives, etc.

Jason I liked because he was the original "bad boy" Robin and him returning from the grave as a more damaged, violent character felt like "Yeah, that makes sense that he'd be this way." I like the idea of him being kind of the anti-Nightwing and he's still relatively sympathetic.

Azrael, on the other hand, was specifically created to be "this is why Batman shouldn't be a violent antihero" and was really a weird religious psycho that was pretty hard to root for. He was intentionally made to be an admonishment of that kind of character. I think Azrael is definitely an interesting character and I think there's a lot that can be done with him, but I don't know if he was ever especially likable as a protagonist.

Jason feels like a more layered and sympathetic take on that kind of thing and I think there's a reason he's become a mainstay in a way Azrael never did.

[K7P5V]

Besides being a more violent Batman apprentice, I think Jason and Azrael are VERY different characters with very different personalities, motives, etc.

Jason I liked because he was the original "bad boy" Robin and him returning from the grave as a more damaged, violent character felt like "Yeah, that makes sense that he'd be this way." I like the idea of him being kind of the anti-Nightwing and he's still relatively sympathetic.

OMG! Totally agree. Excellent explanation. I can definitely see the differences...

Azrael, on the other hand, was specifically created to be "this is why Batman shouldn't be a violent antihero" and was really a weird religious psycho that was pretty hard to root for. He was intentionally made to be an admonishment of that kind of character. I think Azrael is definitely an interesting character and I think there's a lot that can be done with him, but I don't know if he was ever especially likable as a protagonist.

Jason feels like a more layered and sympathetic take on that kind of thing and I think there's a reason he's become a mainstay in a way Azrael never did.

...and on that note, the Quesada version of Azrael is still The Best (IMHO):

[Refrax5]

OMG! Totally agree. Excellent explanation. I can definitely see the differences...





...and on that note, the Quesada version of Azrael is still The Best (IMHO):

Oh, definitely. I remember having the collected "Sword of Azrael" as a kid.

[Darksideofmylife]

Joe Kelly's JLA Run is Better and Underrated.

[Aahz]

Azrael, on the other hand, was specifically created to be "this is why Batman shouldn't be a violent antihero" and was really a weird religious psycho that was pretty hard to root for. He was intentionally made to be an admonishment of that kind of character. I think Azrael is definitely an interesting character and I think there's a lot that can be done with him, but I don't know if he was ever especially likable as a protagonist.

The problem with him is imo also, that Jean Paul Valley is, appart from the brainwashing, imo a really boring guy with next to no personality.

[K7P5V]

Joe Kelly's JLA Run is Better and Underrated.

Affirmative. The Obsidian Age is an underrated classic (IMHO):

[Lightning Rider]

Until someone gives him a major makeover, Wallace "Ace" West is foundationally flawed and terribly redundant.

The Flash Family is too crowded, despite the fact I like most of them. They need different things to do.

The average DC comic book lacks ambition and is not memorable.

Identity Crisis is a great story and kicked off an amazing string of comics for 5 years.

Agreed!

[KoriandrJean]

Affirmative. The Obsidian Age is an underrated classic (IMHO):

Totally agree, here!

[Stanlos]

Until someone gives him a major makeover, Wallace "Ace" West is foundationally flawed and terribly redundant.

The Flash Family is too crowded, despite the fact I like most of them. They need different things to do.

The average DC comic book lacks ambition and is not memorable.



Agreed!

Wallace is an example of lemonade being made out of dead things rotting in the sun. Great character whom we would likely never have gotten had the DiDidiocy not pooped over Wally to bring back Barry and attribute Wally's shite to him. Nobody could tell that hump anything and he just drove the company's characters into the dumpster in the name of quick number spikes. But amidst all of that or perhaps despite it, we got Wallace.

But I wonder the move is now that Everything Happened and we've been Lazareth'd and Dawn'd and are about to be Absolute'd.

[Multiverse]

I'd rather let Barry and Iris tour the Multiverse with Justice Incarnate and let Wally and Linda be Prime Earth's Flash Family POWER COUPLE

[exile001]

OMG! Totally agree. Excellent explanation. I can definitely see the differences...





...and on that note, the Quesada version of Azrael is still The Best (IMHO):

I think it's funny that, intentionally or not, the Jason panels are by Roger Robinson, one of the most prolific (and best) artists from Azrael's solo in the 90's.

[K7P5V]

I think it's funny that, intentionally or not, the Jason panels are by Roger Robinson, one of the most prolific (and best) artists from Azrael's solo in the 90's.

I know, right?! Too bad Mr. Robinson got saddled with the new outfit, instead of having JPV continue wearing the original (better) costume...