X-Men '97 Episode 5 - Remember It Thread

[PoP]

I loved this episode. I wish we could have seen the Scott/Emma affair instead of a Maddie version but I don't mind too much. The final scenes were epic. I'm so glad my childhood X-men are back in this big way.

[whitecrown]

Like I said neither of them should be taking the lead in this situation, they need a professional therapist. I understand both of them are screwing up but that's because it's a screwed up situation. What we have here is a car wreck created by Sinister: Jean is the victim that was hit, while Scott was the unwitting passenger in Sinister's car that was flung through the windshield. You wouldn't expect either of those two to get up and start treatment on the other, would you?

Except Jean is trying to reach out to Scott. He's the one refusing. The onus is on him now. I don't blame Jean for being tired of being ignored after a month and turning to Logan for comfort especially after learning how much he loves her. Going by her reaction and how Logan was the one to restore Jean, not Scott who couldn't even tell the difference, I wouldn't be surprised if Jean realized that Logan loved her more than Scott.

[whitecrown]

Ha. I would applaud that personally.

I've been a bit disappointed by how little Logan has gotten the spotlight. He's in most of the episodes but he comes across like a background character with his only significant scenes being with Jean. Would like to have seen more of a reaction/anger from him on Ororo losing her powers. Or Logan treating Jubilee on her 18th birthday.

If Kurt ends up hanging around with the X-Men more, I hope he and Logan get some good moments together.

[whitecrown]

I’m with the other poster. Jean is in no position to help them deal with their issues. She is just as confused and messed up as him, maybe worse depending on how you look at it

Except she's ready to begin the work. She's trying to do the first step which is basic communication and Scott won't do that. Not with her anyway.

All the references to Phoenix including Jean's burning desire to escape to the cosmos do make me think she'll turn into Phoenix again, sooner rather than later. Hopefully this time, a more accurate portrayal of Jean and the Phoenix being one instead of Jean just being a cosmic host with no agency.

[ChildOfTheAtom]

so like wtf did Beau do to get fired because they HAVE to be noticing all the praise ESPECIALLY with this episode.

Is there sabotage? Did someone want to be the main cook in the kitchen? Did someone want to take credit for others work?

Im so bewildered becuase if these first 5 episode were all Beau. They really are fucked for seaons 2 and 3.

we’ll find out eventually could be he’s just a great writer and not great showrunner? but I don’t think the new guy has the flavor to include things beau is.. like the a different world homage etc

[Zoks]

Except Jean is trying to reach out to Scott. He's the one refusing. The onus is on him now. I don't blame Jean for being tired of being ignored after a month and turning to Logan for comfort especially after learning how much he loves her. Going by her reaction and how Logan was the one to restore Jean, not Scott who couldn't even tell the difference, I wouldn't be surprised if Jean realized that Logan loved her more than Scott.

Of course he doesn't want to talk to her, she is part of the problem he cannot deal with. She is not a neutral arbiter that will help him overcome his current predicament, she is someone he has to figure out how to balance his life around. If she wants to reach out to him properly she should bring a professional third party in. If he refuses then she should terminate officially the relationship.

[Mutant X]

I got the feeling while describing their experience in Nevada that Scott was very into Jean, but she was more interested in the cosmic experience Phoenix could provide and Scott was a step back.

What if in the end Scott and Maddie get reunited and Jean becomes Phoenix and goes away to space with Logan? Maybe a different version of this?

[whitecrown]

Of course he doesn't want to talk to her, she is part of the problem he cannot deal with. She is not a neutral arbiter that will help him overcome his current predicament, she is someone he has to figure out how to balance his life around. If she wants to reach out to him properly she should bring a professional third party in. If he refuses then she should terminate officially the relationship.

If he sees her as part of the problem then no wonder Jean seems done with him. She really was better off leaving as Phoenix.

And if he feels she's someone he has to balance his life around, like she's some unwanted obstacle he's stuck with, then Jean really does deserve better. Jean didn't go to Scott and blame him for being cloned or tell him that she's stuck balancing her life around him. She reemphasized that he's the one who grounds her and her main emotional tie. Anyway, by the end of the episode they seemed on better terms thankfully but I imagine the Cable revelation will cause another shock.

[The Regent]

Okay bye lol anyways

This was one of the most beautiful episodes of TV I've ever seen! Just gorgeous. This episode deserves an Emmy.

X2! My jaw dropped multiple times... the drama, the cameos and the action. My favorite wasn't even in it and I was in heaven! 10/10 best episode.

[Havok83]

If he sees her as part of the problem then no wonder Jean seems done with him. She really was better off leaving as Phoenix.

And if he feels she's someone he has to balance his life around, like she's some unwanted obstacle he's stuck with, then Jean really does deserve better. Jean didn't go to Scott and blame him for being cloned or tell him that she's stuck balancing her life around him. She reemphasized that he's the one who grounds her and her main emotional tie. Anyway, by the end of the episode they seemed on better terms thankfully but I imagine the Cable revelation will cause another shock.

How does one do that by kissing Wolverine and keeping that from him?

[toddcam]

A moment I noticed that I don't think has caught much attention is how Jean started explaining what the Phoenix was to Logan, and he reminded her he was there. It makes the weird way Maddie was explaining to Ororo in an earlier episode. At the time I thought it was just super awkward exposition, common in comics, especially older ones. Now I see it's because all the Phoenix stuff was intermingled with the clone stuff.

RE: Emma Frost. I don't think we can assume Frost isn't a deep character. I expect she will have a great care for teaching and young people. In the original comics, I wouldn't say there was much of anything to hint at that until Firestar or the New Mutants first Hellions arc. I can see her coming out of the rubble, all diamonded up, and letting that depth show.

With regards to her and Cyclops, I think the Cyclops/Frost relationship was a problem from the beginning and made everyone look worse, so I don't see it as a bad thing to shift it to Maddie. Emma doesn't need the baggage of the most convoluted romantic web in the X-Men mythos.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I've been staying away from the Internet all day basically as I saw everyone everywhere was talking about this new episode, even more than usual... now that I got around watching it, I understand why.

I... don't even have the words. This was so good I felt the need to rewatch it instantly. As usual with X97, it was a very packed episode yet there was even more room than usual for the character drama that MAKES the X-Men. It was the small moments that really got me - Scott lashing out in frustration, him seeking comfort in Madelyne and fighting with Jean; Rogue and Remy breaking up, Rogue dancing with Magneto to the Ace of Base; Madelyne finding her son again against all odds. So many moments to cherish and unpack.

I also loved the "Quiet Council", Genosha-version, Emma, Moira and Sean appearing again. I'm so happy they didn't just sweep Maddie under the rug but brought her immediately back into the narrative. Cable reappearing and disappearing right before it all went to hell. I mean it's just unbelievable how much they were able to pack into a single episode, but then again I've been saying it every week.

Gambit's hero moment was so beautiful, the end scene with Anna and the somber music playing at the end were all so perfect, I almost wish for this not to be undone via Cable, for where there's Cable there's time-travel shenanigans. I also love Remy though so I'm conflicted.

I've actually enjoyed the weekly release schedule so far but this really made me wish the next episode was immediately available.

[Havok83]

A moment I noticed that I don't think has caught much attention is how Jean started explaining what the Phoenix was to Logan, and he reminded her he was there. It makes the weird way Maddie was explaining to Ororo in an earlier episode. At the time I thought it was just super awkward exposition, common in comics, especially older ones. Now I see it's because all the Phoenix stuff was intermingled with the clone stuff.

RE: Emma Frost. I don't think we can assume Frost isn't a deep character. I expect she will have a great care for teaching and young people. In the original comics, I wouldn't say there was much of anything to hint at that until Firestar or the New Mutants first Hellions arc. I can see her coming out of the rubble, all diamonded up, and letting that depth show.

With regards to her and Cyclops, I think the Cyclops/Frost relationship was a problem from the beginning and made everyone look worse, so I don't see it as a bad thing to shift it to Maddie. Emma doesn't need the baggage of the most convoluted romantic web in the X-Men mythos.

Emma's very first appearance was trying to recruit Kitty. Claremont instilled a knack for mentorship/teaching from the very beginning. Her next appearance after her debut was UXM 152 when Kitty was sent to her Massachusetts Academy

[Saturius]

Yeah I don't get the Emma complaints. Even in the comics, her turn to the side of the angels was very thin and weak. Her care for children was only vaguely shown in New Mutants and a majority of that also just highlighted her abuse of them. The heavy lifting of moving her beyond a two dimensional villain was done after she joined Gen X so I don't see why we needed to see bits of her nuance here in the cartoon when so much was already lacking in the source material. If they screw up her "redemption," then I can see reasons to complain. It just seems too early to besaying that right now though. She was 2 dimensional as a villain and she is here too for now.

[whitecrown]

How does one do that by kissing Wolverine and keeping that from him?

I swear for a Jean fan your posts about her always seem more critical than not. One month ago, Jean finally realized the depth of Logan's true feelings for her. A love that could potentially even overpower Scott's and likely resonates more with the real Jean, the Phoenix side of her that is, which she seems to be embracing again. I don't think it's a coincidence she was able to open up to Logan about Phoenix and how she missed that power because as she stated, Scott was afraid of that side of her. Now she knows Logan has never been afraid but even accepts that part of her as they're both primal based. After a month of being shut out by Scott and feeling lost and confused with all the significant members of her life (Scott, Ororo, and Xavier) missing, it makes sense that she would have doubts and turn to Logan. He's the only one that's real and now he's the one keeping her grounded the way Scott used to but won't anymore.
I can see the show going the route that Claremont wanted to go with Jean realizing she has a much deeper psychic rapport with Logan than she ever did with Scott and that he's her true soulmate. The question of who apparently will die by the end of the season also makes me wonder if it might not be Logan with the Dark Wolverine Saga being adapted next season since that's what Claremont planned on using to bring Jean and Logan together.