X-Men '97 Episode 5 - Remember It Thread

[GoingGreen]

the thing is ppl barely care about what someone likes… and they damn sure don’t care about what somebody doesn’t like. so when today is big accomplishment for X-MEN fans and majority of fanbase is in a great collective mood nobody trying to hear about lorna. the facts are the facts

Okay, the majority of humanity's collective mood is to celebrate mutant death...

My point is, why go out of your way to be a jerk to the people who are feeling hurt / left out? How does that make your life better? Just ignore and move on if you don't care about what someone else likes. Why excuse people being actually rude to Emma and Lorna fans expressing their feelings?

I understand being upset about it but the reason the fans are getting blow back is because some fans are taking the change a little overboard, saying how the show is somehow bad for adapting this scenario without including their favorites as key actors. That said who knows they might pop up as survivors in future episodes, it's not like they were responsible for destroying the Wild Sentinels in the comics. The show took some liberties with that story by having Gambit actually destroy the one attacking Genosha.

I didn't mean to blow past your post - I appreciate your response. And I can understand feeling cross about saying the show is bad. Like I said, I can't deny how amazing the episode is. But the episode is bigger than the episode itself. It wouldn't exist (in the same way) without Polaris' and White Queen's comic contributions, before, during, and after.

[Zoks]

I didn't mean to blow past your post - I appreciate your response. And I can understand feeling cross about saying the show is bad. Like I said, I can't deny how amazing the episode is. But the episode is bigger than the episode itself. It wouldn't exist (in the same way) without Polaris' and White Queen's comic contributions, before, during, and after.

Yeah like I said earlier there is still some room for Lorna and Emma to develop from this event. Like I said in the other topic, Lorna could have technically been on the island, we just never see her because the show runners did not want to remind us that Magneto was trying to hook up with somebody his daughter's age. Casual fans may not make the connection that Polaris is Magneto's daughter but we'd know and we would blow that up all over twitter. She was also raised as his daughter properly in Wolverine and the X-Men, so I can see why they would be reluctant to show her as a resident of the island. But she also had a very bad introduction as a character in this adaption, so they may want us to forget she exists as a character for her own good.

Emma on the other hand might go down the villain route, as Shaw died and she just watched the citizens of her island massacred, so having her wanting blood would be in character.

[Gnostic]

WTF?!? Considering how big her plotline was this episode, I feel like thats something that should have been more clear. It definitely didnt even feel like her story was over and its lame to kill her off like this pretty much off panel. Like did we see her die and I missed it?

I wouldn't say it was off-screen. But yeah, that sucks.

[Android 17]

That sucks about Maddie, but judging from Cable, I'm sure a lot of this will be reversed via time travel.

Is it bad though that I like her more than Jean now?

[Frontier]

Well...that escalated quickly!

Opening update! Cable fighting Apocalypse, teasing our man from the future showing up in this episode.

This was really an episode for fans of the Grant Morrison X-Men run...Genosha destroyed! Jean and Scott's marriage problems! Psychic affair! Jean kissing Logan! The works!

Trish Tilby meets the X-Men! I love how Beast got all dressed up and blushed around her, since they were love interests in the comic!

Jean recalling how powerful and cosmic she was as The Phoenix and then kissing Logan...also happened in the Morrison run. Though at least Logan has enough sense not to be the homewrecker he could easily be and take advantage of Jean's fraught emotional state.

Is this the first time they've used the term "Psychic Rapport?"

In fairness to Trish, she was just doing her due diligence as a reporter by bringing up Nate and the doctor not knowing how triggering that would be to Scott...and, to be fair to Scott, there really is no way you could properly explain what happened to your kid to people.

I was kind of surprised to see Maddie in Genosha because I felt like she would've steered clear of Mutant stuff afterwards...but I guess a good chunk of her personality is still Jean's, so of course she would help.

NIGHTCRAWLER!!! Man, it's nice to see Kurt, and it's nice to see Adrian Hough again even if his voice sounds a little weird when Kurt's design makes him look a few years younger than in the original show. But he's still got the charm, the wit, the faith, the heart of gold, and the cool teleportation powers.

Look at all the Mutant cameos! Pixie! Glob Herman! Nature Girl! Multiple Man! Dazzler! Frikkin' Exodus! And most of them were doing exotic dancing! They even threw in The Watcher!

So just like with the Quiet Council in the current Krakoa era of X-Men we've got a governing body made up of half villains (the Inner Circle) and half good guys (Moira and Banshee). With the plan to be to place Magneto in charge, which has always ended well. Just like in Wolverine and the X-Men!

It was cool to see Emma, Sebastian Shaw, Moira, and Banshee/Sean finally. I didn't think anyone could top Kari Wahlgren as Emma, but Martha Marion did a solid job (both as Emma and Moira). Todd Haberkon does his best Travis Willingham impression as Shaw. David Errigo Jr. does a convincing Banshee.

Who needs an psychic affair with Emma Frost when you can have a psychic affair with the woman you thought was your wife and the mother of your child? Honestly makes more sense than Scott going along with his sexy and less than ethical therapist. Though Emma was also privvy to the affair here.

I get that Scott and Jean are both in a very emotionally volatile state in themselves and their relationship and not thinking completely straight...but Jean lecturing Scott for psychically getting consoled by and kissing Maddie rings hollow when she was locking lips with Logan not long before. Like, where was her grounding love for Scott then?

So I guess Rogue lost her virginity to Magneto? I dunno, they said they promised never to bring up their love affair again to explain away why it never came up until now...but it really feels like something that would've been relevant in all the seasons or moments where the X-Men were dealing with Magneto.

Not only did Beau DeMayo write most of the season and put his heart and soul into it...he also literally put himself in as well. Disney can now never completely get rid of him.

Gambit got called a scoundrel but in this episode he was a class act (and a hero). He accepted Rogue's confession, was willing to still be friends with her, but called her out for following physical lust versus her heart when it came to Magneto...and she realized the truth too late.

Cable! I didn't expect to see him trying to warn everyone about the Sentinel attack, even if he was too late and too quickly gone to make any difference...but at least he got to see his mom again, though now only Maddie knows Cable is Nathan Summers. I wonder...is this Cable before or after all the events of the original series? Also I wasn't sure how Chris Potter would sound as Cable, but he seems pretty solid. It was also kind of appropriate to have the original voice of Gambit in an episode where he was a major player...even if he also died.

So was that some kind of Tri-Sentinel Uber Master Mold? Not only was it near-unstoppable and a mobile Sentinel factory, but just absolutely terrifying. I can only hope it takes so much to make that thing that they won't be able to mass produce it.

Jeez, they're dropping bodies left and right. Were all those characters lying on the roof dead!? Is Callisto dead, her eyes were still moving...they killed Banshee!? THEY KILLED GAMBIT!?

We didn't see Emma so I'm guessing she survived by unlocking her diamond powers like in the comics?

I like that Val was prioritizing saving civilians but I feel like she's probably going to take a lot of flack for the Sentinels she probably had no idea about. I have to assume Bastion was behind them.

Magneto getting knocked into a stone statue of his old friend Charles that lands on Mutant civilians...Magneto putting his all into protecting the Morlocks, remembering his time in a concentration camp...I don't think Magneto actually died, but it was a powerful moment.

Gambit played the only card he had left to play...himself. And he played it phenomenally.

Nothing says tragedy like Rogue finally touching Gambit...and she can't feel or absorb anything because it's his seemingly lifeless corpse.

[Havok83]

Not only did Beau DeMayo write most of the season and put his heart and soul into it...he also literally put himself in as well. Disney can now never completely get rid of him.

I mean they can always edit that out

[Frobisher]

Where was Betsy? 0/10

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

1: Don't be rude to fans whose favorite characters are not only responsible for the source material impact of the Genoshan Genocide, but their very identities are connected to the story...

Don't expect people not to eventually get irritated when someone keeps aggressively harshing the vibe.

2: If you give Phoenix to someone not Jean, or Archangel to someone not Warren, or Lifedeath to someone not Ororo, or DoFP to someone not Kitty (like, say, Wolverine in the movie that Kitty fans still complain about)... how are fans of the source material expected to feel? Why are Emma and Lorna fans supposed to just be fine with it? Emma's and Lorna's current IPs exist because of Genosha, and their modern fanbases were largely developed as a response their roles in the story.

Okay? They give the phoenix force to people not named Jean Grey, all the time. Warren's role as death has also been passed along to at least six other characters. Yes, Emma and Lorna fans should just deal with it. Not only did Emma and Lorna have a limited presence in X-Men '92, but (as has been stated ad nauseum) this isn't a point-by-point adaptation. The show has never done those.

I used to think that Barry Allen and Hal Jordan fans complaining about the Justice League cartoon were catty, but that wig has been well and truly snatched.

[Refrax5]

Well his petty comments certainly shaped his vison no?

Him making a creative choice that doesn't follow your personal preferences has nothing to do with the quality of the story. Maybe he's not the only one being petty?

[Refrax5]

Okay, the majority of humanity's collective mood is to celebrate mutant death...

My point is, why go out of your way to be a jerk to the people who are feeling hurt / left out? How does that make your life better? Just ignore and move on if you don't care about what someone else likes. Why excuse people being actually rude to Emma and Lorna fans expressing their feelings?



I didn't mean to blow past your post - I appreciate your response. And I can understand feeling cross about saying the show is bad. Like I said, I can't deny how amazing the episode is. But the episode is bigger than the episode itself. It wouldn't exist (in the same way) without Polaris' and White Queen's comic contributions, before, during, and after.

Not to "celebrate mutant death," my God. That's going way overboard to vilify people for having the audacity to disagree. Its a great episode because its powerful. There's great heroism in the face of horror and there's both tragedy and triumph. Fans are happy because of how good the show is, so it is obnoxious for a certain poster to dismiss it as "trash" because their personal favorite character, who was barely even a part of the show, wasn't included, is incredibly disrespectful and dismissive.

The writer talked about it mirroring real world events that changed our world and culture like 9/11 and the Pulse shooting (where he himself used to hang out). Clearly a lot of reverence and care went into the crafting of this story, so it feels so petty and ridiculous for people to be trashing it over that. The other thread was hijacked by a single poster airing his personal grievance that few others shared. I saw that and thought, "Yeah, this is the kind of thing that made me leave these boards for so long."

[superjosh]

lol man is it safe to come into this thread? Anyway, sorry too many pages to check back but who is this character riding an energy disk?



I don't recognize the power signature (and it's def not Dazzler). She had this little moment right after Mags and Rogue started their air dance and it was really out of place. There were little bits of other characters moving around before, but she got this focused solo shot and I thought she was like going to do something? I figure just a background character that they spent time designing and wanted to make use out of (she's seen in the background several other times), but it was odd.

[Refrax5]

Well...that escalated quickly!

Opening update! Cable fighting Apocalypse, teasing our man from the future showing up in this episode.

This was really an episode for fans of the Grant Morrison X-Men run...Genosha destroyed! Jean and Scott's marriage problems! Psychic affair! Jean kissing Logan! The works!

Trish Tilby meets the X-Men! I love how Beast got all dressed up and blushed around her, since they were love interests in the comic!

Jean recalling how powerful and cosmic she was as The Phoenix and then kissing Logan...also happened in the Morrison run. Though at least Logan has enough sense not to be the homewrecker he could easily be and take advantage of Jean's fraught emotional state.

Is this the first time they've used the term "Psychic Rapport?"

In fairness to Trish, she was just doing her due diligence as a reporter by bringing up Nate and the doctor not knowing how triggering that would be to Scott...and, to be fair to Scott, there really is no way you could properly explain what happened to your kid to people.

I was kind of surprised to see Maddie in Genosha because I felt like she would've steered clear of Mutant stuff afterwards...but I guess a good chunk of her personality is still Jean's, so of course she would help.

NIGHTCRAWLER!!! Man, it's nice to see Kurt, and it's nice to see Adrian Hough again even if his voice sounds a little weird when Kurt's design makes him look a few years younger than in the original show. But he's still got the charm, the wit, the faith, the heart of gold, and the cool teleportation powers.

Look at all the Mutant cameos! Pixie! Glob Herman! Nature Girl! Multiple Man! Dazzler! Frikkin' Exodus! And most of them were doing exotic dancing! They even threw in The Watcher!

So just like with the Quiet Council in the current Krakoa era of X-Men we've got a governing body made up of half villains (the Inner Circle) and half good guys (Moira and Banshee). With the plan to be to place Magneto in charge, which has always ended well. Just like in Wolverine and the X-Men!

It was cool to see Emma, Sebastian Shaw, Moira, and Banshee/Sean finally. I didn't think anyone could top Kari Wahlgren as Emma, but Martha Marion did a solid job (both as Emma and Moira). Todd Haberkon does his best Travis Willingham impression as Shaw. David Errigo Jr. does a convincing Banshee.

Who needs an psychic affair with Emma Frost when you can have a psychic affair with the woman you thought was your wife and the mother of your child? Honestly makes more sense than Scott going along with his sexy and less than ethical therapist. Though Emma was also privvy to the affair here.

I get that Scott and Jean are both in a very emotionally volatile state in themselves and their relationship and not thinking completely straight...but Jean lecturing Scott for psychically getting consoled by and kissing Maddie rings hollow when she was locking lips with Logan not long before. Like, where was her grounding love for Scott then?

So I guess Rogue lost her virginity to Magneto? I dunno, they said they promised never to bring up their love affair again to explain away why it never came up until now...but it really feels like something that would've been relevant in all the seasons or moments where the X-Men were dealing with Magneto.

Not only did Beau DeMayo write most of the season and put his heart and soul into it...he also literally put himself in as well. Disney can now never completely get rid of him.

Gambit got called a scoundrel but in this episode he was a class act (and a hero). He accepted Rogue's confession, was willing to still be friends with her, but called her out for following physical lust versus her heart when it came to Magneto...and she realized the truth too late.

Cable! I didn't expect to see him trying to warn everyone about the Sentinel attack, even if he was too late and too quickly gone to make any difference...but at least he got to see his mom again, though now only Maddie knows Cable is Nathan Summers. I wonder...is this Cable before or after all the events of the original series? Also I wasn't sure how Chris Potter would sound as Cable, but he seems pretty solid. It was also kind of appropriate to have the original voice of Gambit in an episode where he was a major player...even if he also died.

So was that some kind of Tri-Sentinel Uber Master Mold? Not only was it near-unstoppable and a mobile Sentinel factory, but just absolutely terrifying. I can only hope it takes so much to make that thing that they won't be able to mass produce it.

Jeez, they're dropping bodies left and right. Were all those characters lying on the roof dead!? Is Callisto dead, her eyes were still moving...they killed Banshee!? THEY KILLED GAMBIT!?

We didn't see Emma so I'm guessing she survived by unlocking her diamond powers like in the comics?

I like that Val was prioritizing saving civilians but I feel like she's probably going to take a lot of flack for the Sentinels she probably had no idea about. I have to assume Bastion was behind them.

Magneto getting knocked into a stone statue of his old friend Charles that lands on Mutant civilians...Magneto putting his all into protecting the Morlocks, remembering his time in a concentration camp...I don't think Magneto actually died, but it was a powerful moment.

Gambit played the only card he had left to play...himself. And he played it phenomenally.

Nothing says tragedy like Rogue finally touching Gambit...and she can't feel or absorb anything because it's his seemingly lifeless corpse.

I don't think her eyes were moving. Her pupils were becoming fixed, which happens when you die.

[Refrax5]

That sucks about Maddie, but judging from Cable, I'm sure a lot of this will be reversed via time travel.

Is it bad though that I like her more than Jean now?

I don't think so, based on the writer's comments about the episode. Cable saying he was so sorry to Maddie right before the explosion hit right there seemed clear enough to me that she was dead.

Also, I feel like the power of the episode and the real life tragedies it was meant to mirror would be really cheapened by them undoing it. In comics, it's one thing. In a finite, self-contained series, I think the story should stand and these characters should stay dead.

[Multiverse]

Why do I get the horrible feeling:
1) When Magneto comes back, it's "Planet X" time (except no Xorn Substitute)
2) When GAMBIT comes back, it's as a new Horseman of Apocalypse

[ZeroBG82]

Like did we see her die and I missed it?

Yes. Right as/after Cable gets pulled back through time, she gets swallowed by one of the green lasers of death. Her face even gets the "disintegration" effect around the edges common to cartoons when somebody gets completely annihilated by a beam attack.

Maddie is unquestionably killed in that scene. At least until they go back and explain that nobody is dead (except Gambit), because it was a teleporter beam or something. But how likely does that feel?

Honestly, the only "maybe" death that isn't likely to stick is Magneto's, imo. The way the showed that sequence makes it very clear we never saw a body.