X-Men '97 Episode 5 - Remember It Thread

[ExodusCloak]

I mean there's no way the 3 Braddocks are staying dead. This is all getting reset.

[Havok83]

I felt like they made it pretty clear, we see her outside when blast started and the last shot they show of her, Madelyne's face is lit up green, and then immediately after we see that light is an attack from a Sentinel.

Given the nature of her powers, thats something she could have survived. Look at how powerful she was in the Inferno episode. Thats why I didnt think it was clear

Listen... my sentiments remain that this episode was an amazing episode of television in general. I really felt it, and don't want to detract from how it hit me.

However... some people here are definitely being rude to fans upset about the source material not being represented better.

Two people survived Genosha, which is the story they are pulling back out to make a ton of money on for TV. This story's IP belongs to the White Queen and to Polaris, the -only- survivors of Genosha. (I will admit, it is technically 3, with Magneto having been retconned as a survivor, having been ushered to some protective shelter so he wasn't bearing witness

Just a clarification. Those are the 3 most notable ones, but there were definitely several survivors. Claremont's Excalibur v3 was about those survivors

[ExodusCloak]

There's laser beams and then there's laser beams. There were smaller wild Sentinels too in EoE that went around killing people

[JThree]

Well, it's been an education. X-Men 97 has embraced all the big time controversial elements from the comics and then some. It's so fascinating watching people getting caught up in all the permutations of the Jean Grey/Scott Summers/Wolverine/Madeline soap opera. You'd think we were discussing real people.

Years ago, I thought I was the only Maddie "fan" out there, and this week I find out there's a whole bunch of people supporting our red headed clone. So these recent changes have been a surprise. I have no idea how this will all turn out, but the last thing I want is Logan having a relationship with Jean or Maddie taking up with Havok. Never understood why Claremont and others pushed for Logan and Ms. Grey. Logan, even played by Hugh Jackman, never had much of a chemistry outside of him wanting her.

It's been an interesting X-Men week.

--jthree

[starduck]

This whole nonsense that Maddie = hair down and Jean = ponytail needs to end. Women change up their hairstyles all the time and we’ve seen Jean with her hair down before.

it's the show's fault they even gave Jean a ponytail in the intro after ep 3

Given the nature of her powers, thats something she could have survived. Look at how powerful she was in the Inferno episode. Thats why I didnt think it was clear

It look like it happened to fast for her to react and put up a tk bubble

[Slicknickshady]

Poor Nature Girl!

[GoingGreen]

Just a clarification. Those are the 3 most notable ones, but there were definitely several survivors. Claremont's Excalibur v3 was about those survivors

I appreciate the response-

Is this actual canon? I know there are plenty of people who lived on Genosha but did not survive the attack - they were off-island when it happened. I thought that was established with everyone in that title, as well as the few mutants (including Toad) shown in some related issues. That they'd "returned" to the dead island.

I know this is true for some characters, but I could be mistaken about others. I'm only sure that the 3 were confirmed survivors of genocide.

[Havok83]

Well, it's been an education. X-Men 97 has embraced all the big time controversial elements from the comics and then some. It's so fascinating watching people getting caught up in all the permutations of the Jean Grey/Scott Summers/Wolverine/Madeline soap opera. You'd think we were discussing real people.

Years ago, I thought I was the only Maddie "fan" out there, and this week I find out there's a whole bunch of people supporting our red headed clone. So these recent changes have been a surprise. I have no idea how this will all turn out, but the last thing I want is Logan having a relationship with Jean or Maddie taking up with Havok. Never understood why Claremont and others pushed for Logan and Ms. Grey. Logan, even played by Hugh Jackman, never had much of a chemistry outside of him wanting her.

It's been an interesting X-Men week.

--jthree

he hated Marvel bringing Jean back and undoing what he did with Scott and Madelyne. Jean with Logan was a middle finger to that

[remydat]

Listen... my sentiments remain that this episode was an amazing episode of television in general. I really felt it, and don't want to detract from how it hit me.

However... some people here are definitely being rude to fans upset about the source material not being represented better.

Two people survived Genosha, which is the story they are pulling back out to make a ton of money on for TV. This story's IP belongs to the White Queen and to Polaris, the -only- survivors of Genosha. (I will admit, it is technically 3, with Magneto having been retconned as a survivor, having been ushered to some protective shelter so he wasn't bearing witness, yet still managed to create the electromagnetic black-box to capture the essences of the dying which later drove Polaris into madness - none of which he remembers).

In the comics, the dynamics leading up to Genosha's destruction were quite rich for Magneto (obviously), and for Polaris. Polaris went to Magneto to be his student, though there were hints left, right, and center about their blood relation, specifically throughout Dark Seduction (go ahead and look it up). Polaris was part of the Genoshan cabinet during this time and after, and was secretly leading the entire nation while Magneto healed from injuries sustained from Wolverine severing his spine. Polaris lead the nation until the end of Dark Seduction, and after recognizing Magneto's assault on Carrion Cove as domestic terrorism, turned on him. After, she held a crucial, dangerous role running a mutant underground railroad out of Genosha while protecting the sick and dying from war. This is what led to the Genoshan Genocide. While everyone focuses on what happened after, with Polaris shown after Genocide in a state of madness, then her parentage reveal... Polaris' history on Genosha started well before genocide, and was far more important than many fans want to recognize.

So while the episode was great, I think it's really sad that some of you are so rude to some fans who are upset that the source material was changed so dramatically, which is largely what makes certain characters "favorite" characters.

If you take the Archangel story from the comics and give it to Pixie in the show, how should fans of Angel feel? If you take the Phoenix story from Jean and give it to Sage in a show, how should Jean fans feel?

The comics are not the 616. They are a different universe. So rather than treat this as an adaption of the 616 comics it should be treated as an alternate universe where some of the events are similar but not exact.

So yes there will be a universe out there where Emma and Polaris are not as prominent in the events because the multiverse is filled with infinite possibilities.

[Zoks]

The comics are not the 616. They are a different universe. So rather than treat this as an adaption of the 616 comics it should be treated as an alternate universe where some of the events are similar but not exact.

So yes there will be a universe out there where Emma and Polaris are not as prominent in the events because the multiverse is filled with infinite possibilities.

Oh no I understand what their problem with this is. See for most non-comic fans this is the only version of the story they'll ever know. So if they do develop a taste for the comics afterwards they'll want to read Gambit comics now, because he stole the show. So he'll grow in popularity and may get more pushes by Marvel to appear in other projects, while their favorites are buried. I wouldn't worry too much as an Emma fan because she still has room for growth, but Polaris in this series is already damaged goods and they're taking away the few chances she has for redemption. Like at this point they need to come out with a statement that episode with her and Bobby from the 92 series is no longer canon to salvage her as a character for the show.

[remydat]

Oh no I understand what their problem with this is. See for most non-comic fans this is the only version of the story they'll ever know. So if they do develop a taste for the comics afterwards they'll want to read Gambit comics now, because he stole the show. So he'll grow in popularity and may get more pushes by Marvel to appear in other projects, while their favorites are buried. I wouldn't worry too much as an Emma fan because she still has room for growth, but Polaris in this series is already damaged goods and they're taking away the few chances she has for redemption. Like at this point they need to come out with a statement that episode with her and Bobby from the 92 series is no longer canon to salvage her as a character for the show.

That is more a meta argument. My point is more from an in universe perspective.

[GoingGreen]

The comics are not the 616. They are a different universe. So rather than treat this as an adaption of the 616 comics it should be treated as an alternate universe where some of the events are similar but not exact.

So yes there will be a universe out there where Emma and Polaris are not as prominent in the events because the multiverse is filled with infinite possibilities.

I understand this. However, you're missing my points.

1: Don't be rude to fans whose favorite characters are not only responsible for the source material impact of the Genoshan Genocide, but their very identities are connected to the story...

2: If you give Phoenix to someone not Jean, or Archangel to someone not Warren, or Lifedeath to someone not Ororo, or DoFP to someone not Kitty (like, say, Wolverine in the movie that Kitty fans still complain about)... how are fans of the source material expected to feel? Why are Emma and Lorna fans supposed to just be fine with it? Emma's and Lorna's current IPs exist because of Genosha, and their modern fanbases were largely developed as a response their roles in the story.

[Zoks]

I understand this. However, you're missing my points.

1: Don't be rude to fans whose favorite characters are not only responsible for the source material impact of the Genoshan Genocide, but their very identities are connected to the story...

2: If you give Phoenix to someone not Jean, or Archangel to someone not Warren, or Lifedeath to someone not Ororo, or DoFP to someone not Kitty (like, say, Wolverine in the movie that Kitty fans still complain about)... how are fans of the source material expected to feel? Why are Emma and Lorna fans supposed to just be fine with it? Emma's and Lorna's current IPs exist because of Genosha, and their modern fanbases were largely developed as a response their roles in the story.

I understand being upset about it but the reason the fans are getting blow back is because some fans are taking the change a little overboard, saying how the show is somehow bad for adapting this scenario without including their favorites as key actors. That said who knows they might pop up as survivors in future episodes, it's not like they were responsible for destroying the Wild Sentinels in the comics. The show took some liberties with that story by having Gambit actually destroy the one attacking Genosha.

[ChildOfTheAtom]

I understand this. However, you're missing my points.

the thing is ppl barely care about what someone likes… and they damn sure don’t care about what somebody doesn’t like. so when today is big accomplishment for X-MEN fans and majority of fanbase is in a great collective mood nobody trying to hear about lorna. the facts are the facts

[Wolverine12]

Oh man this episode gutted me. I did not expect this from a cartoon. Really well done episode and Gambit was so good in this.