X-Men '97 Episode 5 - Remember It Thread

[Nite-Wing]

Cable being included means that this episode will be erased by Cable jumping further in time back to stop the attack. It was a great episode but it’s going to be erased. Classic story telling device.

This show is about stakes and it is likely not going to erase this massacre and the fallout from it. Cable showing up will be fakeout. Bishop could only do so much with time travel in the OG show
If anything this will be used as a hard lesson

Likely the most reasonable way to bring back all the dead named characters is by sinister cloning or Apocalypse rebirth
If they just time travel rubber stamp everything back to normal I'll think this show will lose major points

[Will Evans]

Moira is also dead according to Beau DeMayo.

https://twitter.com/pouquindemuito/s...14430665924905

Good. Now in her next life she can get everyone prepared to avoid the massacre.
lol.

[ExodusCloak]

Good. Now in her next life she can get everyone prepared to avoid the massacre.
lol.

The universe should have been reset upon her death. But guess she's a golem.

[Rift]

Good. Now in her next life she can get everyone prepared to avoid the massacre.
lol.

Or Moira would WANT Genosha to be genocided.

She wanted everyone radicalized and exposed to the absolute horrors humanity has to offer. To show them that the only way they could survive is for everyone to come together under Krakoa. So stuff like the Genosha genocide here would be good for her in the long run, because it'll push people towards what she wants. And with the Five, they could just bring back everyone they lost here anyway. The only downside is that her lover died this time around.

[yogaflame]

For the Polaris fans, I mean, I get it, but was Polaris even in New X-Men #115? I'm pretty sure she was NOT. This episode basically ends at the same point of the end of New X-Men 115. The Sentinel came and destroyed Genosha. The X-Men have barely reacted. She wasn't in the first part of the story. They really didn't even mention her at all until #132, when they found her in the rubble. So, it's not fair to cry the show isn't respecting the canon, when Polaris, in canon, wasn't even a factor in the Genosha genocide until over a year later....

[yogaflame]

This show is about stakes and it is likely not going to erase this massacre and the fallout from it. Cable showing up will be fakeout. Bishop could only do so much with time travel in the OG show
If anything this will be used as a hard lesson

Likely the most reasonable way to bring back all the dead named characters is by sinister cloning or Apocalypse rebirth
If they just time travel rubber stamp everything back to normal I'll think this show will lose major points

Bishop and Cable both changed the past with time travel in the OG show. Apocalypse killed THE ENTIRE TEAM in one episode. The next episode Cable figured out a way to save them and still keep the necessary antibodies to ensure his future would be strong enough to endure the Legacy Virus(by infecting Logan, who then cured himself and created the antibodies to save everyone, as if immunology works that way, but that's their story).

[GoingGreen]

Don't expect people not to eventually get irritated when someone keeps aggressively harshing the vibe.

Okay? They give the phoenix force to people not named Jean Grey, all the time. Warren's role as death has also been passed along to at least six other characters. Yes, Emma and Lorna fans should just deal with it. Not only did Emma and Lorna have a limited presence in X-Men '92, but (as has been stated ad nauseum) this isn't a point-by-point adaptation. The show has never done those.

I used to think that Barry Allen and Hal Jordan fans complaining about the Justice League cartoon were catty, but that wig has been well and truly snatched.

I'll reiterate: I loved the episode. I don't know how many times I have to say that. And I can understand feeling defensive of material you like.

And that's kind of the point. Emma and Lorna fans who are upset about the episode are upset because they are defensive about the material they like. Why do some posters hate people expressing their opinions so much because they disagree with you?

Not to "celebrate mutant death," my God. That's going way overboard to vilify people for having the audacity to disagree. Its a great episode because its powerful. There's great heroism in the face of horror and there's both tragedy and triumph. Fans are happy because of how good the show is, so it is obnoxious for a certain poster to dismiss it as "trash" because their personal favorite character, who was barely even a part of the show, wasn't included, is incredibly disrespectful and dismissive.

The writer talked about it mirroring real world events that changed our world and culture like 9/11 and the Pulse shooting (where he himself used to hang out). Clearly a lot of reverence and care went into the crafting of this story, so it feels so petty and ridiculous for people to be trashing it over that. The other thread was hijacked by a single poster airing his personal grievance that few others shared. I saw that and thought, "Yeah, this is the kind of thing that made me leave these boards for so long."

To be clear, I was talking about comics, not real people, nor anyone posting here. It was a striking comment because someone wanted to push my buttons, that's all.

Again, I agree, it was a phenomenal episode. I'm merely saying we don't need to hate on each other based on a different reactions to the same episode.

1. I havent read the whole thread so maybe some peoplw were being rude. However I wonder if what you see as rudeness is more so indifference. Some of us dont care as much as you do about this ao we arent as uoset about it as you.

2. I think the disconnect here is this is not an adaption of the 616 so there is no source material. It would be like saying Age of Apocalypse didnt respect the source material because it had Rogue chosing Mags over Gambit. The reality is it was a different universe so Marvel is free to make whatever changes they want. The same is true here. You dont have to be happy about it but they arent disrespecting the source material because this was never intended to be 616 in animated form.

Appreciate the response, but agree to disagree that there is no source material. This episode was pulled and adapted directly from source material. Again, IT'S A GOOD EPISODE, I'm NOT saying it's bad. I'm merely saying, have some understanding why other fans feel a little upset. And instead of hating on them, if you just ignore and move on and continue celebrating. That's it.

I got news for you. This has been going on since the original 90s cartoon, like when Bishop replaced Rachel in Days of Future Past. Or Jubilee replacing Kitty Pryde in the fairy tale episode.

The main cast chosen for the original cartoon have priority.

I got news for you: you've missed the point.

For the Polaris fans, I mean, I get it, but was Polaris even in New X-Men #115? I'm pretty sure she was NOT. This episode basically ends at the same point of the end of New X-Men 115. The Sentinel came and destroyed Genosha. The X-Men have barely reacted. She wasn't in the first part of the story. They really didn't even mention her at all until #132, when they found her in the rubble. So, it's not fair to cry the show isn't respecting the canon, when Polaris, in canon, wasn't even a factor in the Genosha genocide until over a year later....

Disagree, but appreciate the thought / research. I disagree with the sentiment because Polaris had been an established and important figurehead on Genosha, first working with Magneto, and then against him - involved in everything in Genosha leading up to the moment of E is for Extinction, which started with New X-Men 114, and spun out of Eve of Destruction, which went up to New X-Men 113 (simultaneously in Uncanny), and Polaris was all over that story in Genosha.

[jmc247]

For the Polaris fans, I mean, I get it, but was Polaris even in New X-Men #115? I'm pretty sure she was NOT. This episode basically ends at the same point of the end of New X-Men 115. The Sentinel came and destroyed Genosha. The X-Men have barely reacted. She wasn't in the first part of the story. They really didn't even mention her at all until #132, when they found her in the rubble. So, it's not fair to cry the show isn't respecting the canon, when Polaris, in canon, wasn't even a factor in the Genosha genocide until over a year later....

So then we can expect it to be explained she was on the island and it will be dealt with later right? Right?

Genosha was the central factor in her story as a character for two years before New X-Men 115. Morrison continued to treat it as central to her story as did Austen later. Frankly there is no way to get to modern Lorna without it. At all. That doesn’t mean all of it had to be replicated in the same steps, but not even having her there which a number of characters including her X-Factor teammates is simply an excuse for some who didn’t even really read the 00s comics to be able to keep some characters in their nostalgia bubble.

[JThree]

Wish the remaining 5 episodes were all out now, rather than waiting 5 weeks to see how the season ends. Possibly we won't get any answers to the cliffhangers and we might get other cliffhangers to end the season on. How many of you think the season will end on a definitive conclusion to all these plotlines?

--jthree

[Frontier]

So is Nightcrawler going to replace Gambit on the team?

I don't think so, based on the writer's comments about the episode. Cable saying he was so sorry to Maddie right before the explosion hit right there seemed clear enough to me that she was dead.

Also, I feel like the power of the episode and the real life tragedies it was meant to mirror would be really cheapened by them undoing it. In comics, it's one thing. In a finite, self-contained series, I think the story should stand and these characters should stay dead.

The irony being one of the rare times Cable actually acknowledges Maddie as a mom.

Moira is also dead according to Beau DeMayo.

https://twitter.com/pouquindemuito/s...14430665924905

Jeez, she and Sean can't catch a break.

Also feels like "look at all these old characters we brought back and brutally killed off!"

Actually considering Beau's feelings on Emma I'm surprised she wasn't explicitly shown dead but that might mean there are plans for her.

[ActualLibrarian]

kxmpp7y00rtc1.jpg

https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/commen...ng_adult_when/

[ExodusCloak]

They really had a missed opportunity here to have Laurie Collins be the first to die in the Sentinel attack.

[Tank]

So then we can expect it to be explained she was on the island and it will be dealt with later right? Right?

Genosha was the central factor in her story as a character for two years before New X-Men 115. Morrison continued to treat it as central to her story as did Austen later. Frankly there is no way to get to modern Lorna without it. At all. That doesn’t mean all of it had to be replicated in the same steps, but not even having her there which a number of characters including her X-Factor teammates is simply an excuse for some who didn’t even really read the 00s comics to be able to keep some characters in their nostalgia bubble.

Cassandra Nova was the whole reason the Genosha massacre happened. She’s more integral to it than Polaris. If anything she should be the star!! #justiceforCassie

[Will Evans]

Speaking of Polaris, I hope we see her interact with Zaladane in the Savage Land at some point during the series.

[yogaflame]

kxmpp7y00rtc1.jpg

https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/commen...ng_adult_when/

You know, maybe that's how they want to see it in this continuity, but in the comics, Rogue joined the X-Men when she was like, 17, so she would have run away from home/been taken in by Mystique even earlier, at like, maybe 13-14, making this Magneto tryst firmly in the illegal zone. But I guess we'll just have to handwave this one since it's a different continuity, and to be fair, these X-Men did always present as being a little older. Even if she somehow was in her early 20's in the Savage Land, he's still like wayyyy older than her, so it still feels icky.

I was very surprised they introduced the Mags/Rogue relationship in the earlier episodes for that very reason. At least in the comics when Rogue got to the Savage Land, she was definitely 18 by then, and Magneto was 'in his prime' physically having been regressed to age 30/35(and it was like, 1990, so even if he was his regular age, he'd have only been barely 60).