DC Comic Sales March

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I guess I should have been more specific. I prefer vigilante heroes over metahumans, so gritty for me just means a writer who can write a really good street fighting story with broken bones, dislocated shoulders ect....seems to have become a lost art at DC.



I see, well I think that's part of it, but I also think that DC had some questionable hiring practices the last few years, in which at one point (it seems to have stopped) writers felt like they were getting hired on their political persuasion instead of merit.

Vita Ayala, Becky Cloonan, Michael Conrad, & Meagan Fitzmartin to name a few have to be some of the worst writers I've ever come across at DC, and apparently it's just not me, because they sunk every title they worked on.

I’m not ideologically aligned with any part of the political spectrum, so I don’t really care if a writer is left wing or right wing….I do care if they can write well though.

Today Frank Miller or Chuck Dixon would most likely not be hired by DC because of their personal politics, which is a shame because they can write 1000 times better than Becky Cloonan and Michael Conrad.
Barring something morally serious, merit should be the only consideration when hiring writers at DC.

Dixon is a racist who works with white supremacist and promoted confederate propaganda. Miller did something extremely xenophobic and Islamophobic. They did do something "morally serious".

Also it's common sense not to hire racist and bigots regardless of 'merit'. Are fictional stories about people dressing up in costumes more worthy than basic human dignity?

[Gaius]

I guess I should have been more specific. I prefer vigilante heroes over metahumans, so gritty for me just means a writer who can write a really good street fighting story with broken bones, dislocated shoulders ect....seems to have become a lost art at DC.



I see, well I think that's part of it, but I also think that DC had some questionable hiring practices the last few years, in which at one point (it seems to have stopped) writers felt like they were getting hired on their political persuasion instead of merit.

Vita Ayala, Becky Cloonan, Michael Conrad, & Meagan Fitzmartin to name a few have to be some of the worst writers I've ever come across at DC, and apparently it's just not me, because they sunk every title they worked on.

I’m not ideologically aligned with any part of the political spectrum, so I don’t really care if a writer is left wing or right wing….I do care if they can write well though.

Today Frank Miller or Chuck Dixon would most likely not be hired by DC because of their personal politics, which is a shame because they can write 1000 times better than Becky Cloonan and Michael Conrad.
Barring something morally serious, merit should be the only consideration when hiring writers at DC.

Miller still gets books whenever he wants to and he wrote an entire hate screed against Muslims? What are you on about?

And Dixon was on the 80th Robin special and had that awful 12 issue Bane mini. Either way Dude thinks gay people shouldn't exist and pals around with pedo defenders, don't know what your standards are but that seems a pretty clear cut case of being "morally serious". Sorry to fans of mediocre 90s comics but Dixon wouldn't get hired today because he personally burned all his bridges.

[Captain Nostalgia]

Dixon is a racist who works with white supremacist and promoted confederate propaganda. Miller did something extremely xenophobic and Islamophobic. They did do something "morally serious".

Also it's common sense not to hire racist and bigots regardless of 'merit'. Are fictional stories about people dressing up in costumes more worthy than basic human dignity?

Yes, for Dixon, that would indeed count as morally serious in big bold letters.

I've heard this before, I haven't bothered to look into it in detail, (not a big political person) . I guess for me it would have to do with whether or not he's just in Steve Bannon/Trump land, or if he's actually embraced the Alt right.

Miller, not so sure, (as a mushy middle political centrist) I'd have to come to my own conclusion.


But as stated, I don't care if someone is left or right, so long as they are simply getting hired on merit. Denny O Neil, one of my favourite writers, big leftie, but I don't care because he had talent.

[Captain Nostalgia]

At least Vita Ayala and Meagan Fitzmartin don't seem to get any titles at DC or Marvel at the moment.

Thank the powers that be for that. I’ve got a feeling that they’re quietly being shown the door. Fingers crossed.

Since Damian stepped in, interest in Tim Drake dropped to a historic low as well. No Meghan Fitzmartin, no Drake Robin book in the first place.

I’m not so sure on that, his last mini sold pretty decent if I recall correctly…though I could be wrong.

If you talk to Tim Drake fans, no Meghan Fitzmartin Robin book would probably have been a good thing.

Also, I like how you conveniently sidestepped my reply about Frank Miller being a pity hire on Neal Adams's own admission and having nothing to do with merit.

No, sorry dude, wasn’t trying to sidestep you, I just missed your post, I’ll address your comments below.

Yeah no, I don't see any of Frank Miller's books breaking out today as they did in the 80s. Not the same political climate, not the same comics industry. Even Miller's politics have moved much more to the center over the years and he has said he would never write stuff like Holy Terror again.

Also, where are the Alan Moores, Grant Morrisons, Neil Gaimans, Chris Claremonts of today? At Marvel is where (Jonathan Hickman, Al Ewing, Kieron Gillen etc.)
Most of the comic legends from the past are what the right today would call "radical left".

*Also, Neal Adams's daughter convinced him to give Miller a chance because she felt sorry for him. Adams himself thought Miller's portfolio was awful. So much for being hired on merit lol

I heard that Miller initially got hired by DC because Vince Colleta recognized his talent, and like Willow he did small jobs, before moving onto Marvel, wrote his classic Daredevil series and then came back to DC and released the legendary Dark Knight series.
So I do think merit still stands here.

Anyways I agree with you about the Moore’s and Morrison’s of the world, the Denny O Neil’s to.

It should be noted that I did use the word “felt” like people were getting hired on political persuasion over talent. I didn’t say that they factually are. It’s just how I sort of feel about the situation, and of course feelings are often misconstrued.

[LAWtoyoto 432]

I think the issue at DC is WHEN are those artist getting the scripts to even start drawing.

Along with how many other projects are some of them doing? Like a Jamal Campbell-as MANY covers as he does-how he does Superman must have been a miracle.

Along with probably pay rates are an issue.

Lucas Verneck, a new Marvel artist who draws the "IMMORTAL X-MEN" run while at the same time draws many variant covers in other runs. I don't think why this excuse couldn't work out in Marvel or perhaps Marvel at least keep some old touch with some of the artists.

[Frontier]

@Reddead @RogueWhistler Thanks guys!



Okay that makes sense



Interesting. This also explains why they haven't really seriously committed to bringing back Gotham City Sirens despite all 3 members now having successful solos. Also interesting that Harley is actually the worst performing one right now thanks to overexposure and Ivy the best performing one as she's never had a long-running solo before. There was a Poison Ivy fan on Twitter who had told me a decade back that Didio had confided in her saying that there were a couple of people on DC Editorial who didn't want to push Ivy as a solo character as they felt she would dilute Harley's popularity, so they felt she served better as Harley's support.

While those people pissed me off as an Ivy fan, turns out their concerns were right because once you give Ivy a chance to shine, she outshines Harley easily. Funny how the undeniable success of G Willow Wilson's mini literally forced DC to make it a long running book. Ivy's first 2016 mini by Amy Chu and Clay Mann also performed decently, and the TPB sales were really strong, but the single issues didn't quite breakout like Willow's book as there were barely any variants. Which was weird as Poison Ivy may actually be the most variant cover friendly character in all of comics. But back then most people weren't tired of Harley with the Suicide Squad film just around the corner, and the mini was not much more than a bone thrown at the Ivy hashtag folks.

Be thankful Ivy got Wilson instead of Tini Howard.

[Aahz]

I've heard that DC's had trouble getting artists for team books because of the heavier workload. Recent team books like Doom Patrol, Outsiders, and Suicide Squad have been minis instead of ongoings, which probably helps with this, and of course JSA has its own problems.

But to be fair both Doom Patrol and Outsiders have not exactly been strong seller in the past decade or so, and the current Iteration of the Outsiders has appart from the name nothing to do with the franchise, and the current Suicuide Squad run is based around Dreamer and writer by the actress who played her in the CW show and is supposed to be a prelude to the summer event this year, that's likely where it is better to start with a mini and than if the interest is high follow it up with an ongoing after the event.

Btw. is the current Outsiders even a mini series?

[HsssH]

Yes, 12 issues.

[Aahz]

Yes, 12 issues.

Thanks, that neither shown on the cover nor in the solits.

[Fergus]

I’m not so sure on that, his last mini sold pretty decent if I recall correctly…though I could be wrong.

If you talk to Tim Drake fans, no Meghan Fitzmartin Robin book would probably have been a good thing.

It was an ongoing and no it didn't sell decently. It boomed majorly leading to premature cancellation by issue 10.

Tim's Pride Special entered the charts at no 144.

[Captain Nostalgia]

It was an ongoing and no it didn't sell decently. It boomed majorly leading to premature cancellation by issue 10.

Tim's Pride Special entered the charts at no 144.

I wasn't referring to Fitzmartin's series. We all know that bombed.

I'm not a Tim Drake fan, but prior to that in 2010 there was a Red Robin series that sold decently for a while; crunching the numbers on the first few issues. (I couldn't tell you if there was a series in between)


Anyways all wrapped up here on this thread....see you next month, hopefully the numbers are better!

[Aahz]

I'm not a Tim Drake fan, but prior to that in 2010 there was a Red Robin series that sold decently for a while; crunching the numbers on the first few issues. (I couldn't tell you if there was a series in between)

That was also an ongoing, I don't think Tim had a (main continuity) solo book that was officially a mini since the early 90s.

[Noodle]

Tim's Pride Special entered the charts at no 144.

It was a reprint of previous material with about 5 pages of new stuff. Anyone that cared had already read it.

[Thomas Crown]

I'm amazed at the lengths some people here will go to defend bad writers and bad comics. Including resorting to the good old Godwin's Law.

[Bruce Wayne]

I wasn't referring to Fitzmartin's series. We all know that bombed.

I'm not a Tim Drake fan, but prior to that in 2010 there was a Red Robin series that sold decently for a while; crunching the numbers on the first few issues. (I couldn't tell you if there was a series in between)

The Red Robin series was heavily integrated into the rest of the Bat-comics in that the lead Batman editor heavily emphasized tying all the books together as tie-ins and crossovers to Morrison's B&R/Batman Inc ala the X-books (which the editor had run when he worked for Marvel during the Morrison NXM period). So sales numbers on that Red Robin was very much propped up and not a real good gauge of Tim's popularity.

If anything the Fitzmartin books shows how much the stars of the YJ generation (like Superboy, Wondergirl and Impulse) have really fallen since New 52. In particular Tim who's been made redundant because of Damian (and also Red Hood). Likewise for the rest of the YJ characters.