Frieza Invades Invincible Universe

[Sharpandpointies]

So then there's a question of whether the home team can keep Space Racer a secret Kong enough to lure Freiza into an ambush.

Nothing like a secret Kong!

[Beadle]

Nothing like a secret Kong!

How does Kong stay secret? By snea-King. XD

[choptop]

true. he did own both goku and vegeta, so he is at least stronger than them. but fighting gods and angels? he hasn't shown anything to suggest he could.

Um goku and vegeta are at least close to god/Angel level Moro copy the power of a angel and goku was fighting him and he beat gas who wad stronger than Moro I'd say there's at least a case to be made that suggests black Frieza can at least fight gods/Angels.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Um goku and vegeta are at least close to god/Angel level Moro copy the power of a angel and goku was fighting him and he beat gas who wad stronger than Moro I'd say there's at least a case to be made that suggests black Frieza can at least fight gods/Angels.

Merus was a trainee angel, so he wasn't really on par with his siblings. And even when Moro had absorbed his power and fused with the earth Whis easily stopped his punch with a single finger. And despite all their upgrades Goku and Vegeta still aren't able to match Beerus, which also means that they'd stand no chance against Whis.

Now, Black Frieza was shown to be much stronger than Goku and Vegeta. That is true and means that he's closer to the power of the gods and angels. But how much closer, and if he could beat any of them, is still not certain.

[Captain Morgan]

Are we sure the Saiyans haven't surpassed Beerus yet? I don't recall them fighting since Goku first obtained Super Saiyan God and there's been a lot of power creep since then. It vaguely felt like the gods thought Jiren was on their level, for example. Toppo had that quasi god of destruction form Vegeta beat. And I recall someone borrowing Hakai from a god and Freiza overcoming it before rthe tournament of power. I'm not religiously following the series so I probably missed some benchmarks.

[Len Ikari145]

Are we sure the Saiyans haven't surpassed Beerus yet? I don't recall them fighting since Goku first obtained Super Saiyan God and there's been a lot of power creep since then. It vaguely felt like the gods thought Jiren was on their level, for example. Toppo had that quasi god of destruction form Vegeta beat. And I recall someone borrowing Hakai from a god and Freiza overcoming it before rthe tournament of power. I'm not religiously following the series so I probably missed some benchmarks.

Toriyama maintained that Goku and Vegeta still weren't on Beerus' level outside of fusion and Ultra Instinct (which Goku still doesn't have full control of yet in the anime continuity). The Energy of Destruction given by Sindra is only a fraction of an actual Hakkai, which is why Goku was able to resist it and Frieza was able to control it (not to mention Sindra is one of the weaker GoDs). Beerus also states that Toppo's Hakkai technique is fundamentally weaker than a true GoD's (especially since Toppo was explicitly trying not to erase Frieza and Vegeta because killing your opponents meant disqualification) and it nearly killed Frieza when he tried to manipulate it as he did Sindra's destruction energy.

[master of read]

Merus was a trainee angel, so he wasn't really on par with his siblings. And even when Moro had absorbed his power and fused with the earth Whis easily stopped his punch with a single finger. And despite all their upgrades Goku and Vegeta still aren't able to match Beerus, which also means that they'd stand no chance against Whis.

Now, Black Frieza was shown to be much stronger than Goku and Vegeta. That is true and means that he's closer to the power of the gods and angels. But how much closer, and if he could beat any of them, is still not certain.

Toriyama maintained that Goku and Vegeta still weren't on Beerus' level outside of fusion and Ultra Instinct (which Goku still doesn't have full control of yet in the anime continuity). The Energy of Destruction given by Sindra is only a fraction of an actual Hakkai, which is why Goku was able to resist it and Frieza was able to control it (not to mention Sindra is one of the weaker GoDs). Beerus also states that Toppo's Hakkai technique is fundamentally weaker than a true GoD's (especially since Toppo was explicitly trying not to erase Frieza and Vegeta because killing your opponents meant disqualification) and it nearly killed Frieza when he tried to manipulate it as he did Sindra's destruction energy.

damn. you guys beat me to it.

but yeah. goku and geets still aren't on beerus' level and damn sure not on whis'.

[choptop]

Merus was a trainee angel, so he wasn't really on par with his siblings. And even when Moro had absorbed his power and fused with the earth Whis easily stopped his punch with a single finger. And despite all their upgrades Goku and Vegeta still aren't able to match Beerus, which also means that they'd stand no chance against Whis.

Now, Black Frieza was shown to be much stronger than Goku and Vegeta. That is true and means that he's closer to the power of the gods and angels. But how much closer, and if he could beat any of them, is still not certain.

I don't remember that? But anyway they are at least approaching that level.

[choptop]

Toriyama maintained that Goku and Vegeta still weren't on Beerus' level outside of fusion and Ultra Instinct (which Goku still doesn't have full control of yet in the anime continuity). The Energy of Destruction given by Sindra is only a fraction of an actual Hakkai, which is why Goku was able to resist it and Frieza was able to control it (not to mention Sindra is one of the weaker GoDs). Beerus also states that Toppo's Hakkai technique is fundamentally weaker than a true GoD's (especially since Toppo was explicitly trying not to erase Frieza and Vegeta because killing your opponents meant disqualification) and it nearly killed Frieza when he tried to manipulate it as he did Sindra's destruction energy.

No offense to Toriyama he can say whatever he wants but it doesn't really mean anything at least on cbr.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I don't remember that? But anyway they are at least approaching that level.

Whis blocking Moro's punch. Notice that he isn't actually fighting Moro, he mainly talking to Goku and doesn't want to be disturbed.

And here's Whis casually dodging around SSJ Broly, who famously over-powered post ToP Goku and Vegeta.

No offense to Toriyama he can say whatever he wants but it doesn't really mean anything at least on cbr.

Except that those statements do line up with what we've been shown so far of the characters.

[master of read]

Whis blocking Moro's punch. Notice that he isn't actually fighting Moro, he mainly talking to Goku and doesn't want to be disturbed.

And here's Whis casually dodging around SSJ Broly, who famously over-powered post ToP Goku and Vegeta.

Except that those statements do line up with what we've been shown so far of the characters.

and IIRC, that was goku in ultra-instinct, so he was at his then peak and it was clearly being shown that he was struggling. so saying that goku and vegeta getting near the level of beerus and whis is false.

[choptop]

and IIRC, that was goku in ultra-instinct, so he was at his then peak and it was clearly being shown that he was struggling. so saying that goku and vegeta getting near the level of beerus and whis is false.

whis not so much but they are definitely In the ballpark of beerus low level angles.

[choptop]

Whis blocking Moro's punch. Notice that he isn't actually fighting Moro, he mainly talking to Goku and doesn't want to be disturbed.

And here's Whis casually dodging around SSJ Broly, who famously over-powered post ToP Goku and Vegeta.

Except that those statements do line up with what we've been shown so far of the characters.

To be fair that's after Moro was having trouble controlling angel powers he had to fused with the earth and it kinda weakened him.

[master of read]

whis not so much but they are definitely In the ballpark of beerus low level angles.

the feats say otherwise. until we get goke and geets throwing hands with beerus using their new forms, we can't say they how strong they actually are in comparisons to him.

[choptop]

the feats say otherwise. until we get goke and geets throwing hands with beerus using their new forms, we can't say they how strong they actually are in comparisons to him.

What feats are you talking about?