Did Kevin Feige ask for Ms. Marvel's role in Dead Language?

[Garlador]

See, that's the thing, though. There is no reason for her to get roped with the X-Men just because she is a mutant. I think it would expand on the Marvel Universe in a good way if we had more mutants that weren't in the X-Men.

The fact she is getting roped in with the X-Men I think shows that Marvel views all mutants as a monolith. And that's part of why the X-Men and mutant metaphor in general never felt fully integrated with the rest of the Marvel Universe.

So yeah, what they're doing is a misstep, but I don't think Ms. Marvel inherently being a mutant is the problem there.

Well, it didn't help that all the non-X-Men mutants rather clumsily were retconned to somehow NOT be mutants anymore, like Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Franklin Richards, and Squirrel Girl.

I don't blame anyone for raising an eyebrow that Marvel was so quick to boot out all these mutants that helped flesh out the Marvel universe beyond X-Men books, only to retcon an unaffiliated character into a mutant and immediately start putting her in X-Men books.

[Spider-Tiger]

Off-topic but I'm a huge Ms. Marvel fan and I don't mind the change. She was going to be a mutant to begin with but Perlmutter mandated that she be an Inhuman for corporate reasons (and 2014 Marvel's idea of the Inhumans is a ripoff of mutants anyway), so I would argue this is an example of "good" brand synergy since it's making the character more like her author intended her to be had it not been for corporare politics.

It's just that the execution was terrible.

I agree it's a bad idea. However, if the underlying reason is that it's a big finger up to whoever mandated that the Inhumans should take over 616 from mutants because Marvel had sold the film rights to the X-Men, then I can entirely sympathise with it - even if I still think it's a bad idea.
Besides, if they're doing that the priority should be making Wanda and Pietro Magneto's children again.

I just think synergizing these days is entirely foolish. If a writer had a good creatively driven pitch to turn Kamala into a mutant-- even if it was inspired by what was done in the movies or the Perlmutter inhuman push -- that would be one thing. But this just screams of more needless executive meddling and putting the cart before the horse again. Which is what resulted in a terrible story. For something that doesn't seem to appreciably benefit either medium. (The MCU is its own thing and has its own audience. And so do the comics. They don't need to resemble one another. And there's potentially more harm that can be done with this type of crap.) Hopefully, the controversy surrounding Kamala's death serves as a lesson to Feige and those in charge (even if they didn't actually intend for her to be killed in the manner that Wells had done.) Don't attempt to synergize the comics. It doesn't work and likely never will.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I can see it would have made more sense for her to be a mutant originally, as long as she could have been kept out of the X-Men orbit, - which, given that the X-Men's fundamental job is to find and train novice mutants, would have been tricky. It's hard to see an in-universe justification for her carrying on as a hero working out for herself what her powers were after the Wolverine team-up if she were a mutant.

I think that's easy. She wants to protect the members of her community in Jersey City, so she is only a part-time member of the X-Men. So she can live with her parents and operate solo like Spider-Man in her own book, but she can also show up in the X-Men comics and it wouldn't be weird.

[PhantomBoom]

The idea synergy never works is just not true at all, let's be real here, synergy with the MCU is one of the main reasons Iron Man isn't still hated for Civil War, one of the reasons Guardians of the Galaxy can now be a consistently running book, heck it's synergy from the movies that gave us stuff like Magento's helmet making him to telepathic attacks.

Heck let's not forget, Kamala was only an Inhuman because of synergy, and would've been a mutant anyway if Ike Perlmutter didn't try forcing the Inhumans in the X-Men's spot.

Meanwhile some characters would be likely better off if they synergized with the movies, let's take Hank Pym for example, I'm sure most would've preferred he became the older mentor type instead being of merged with Ultron for the last few years.

She did kind of brush aside the Mutant thing as just another label.

Because in universe doesn't have any significance yet, it's a reveal for the audience because we know what term mutant means for the future, but the characters themselves it doesn't mean too much.
If they kept Kamala being an Inhuman, not much would change.

[Daibhidh]

I think that's easy. She wants to protect the members of her community in Jersey City, so she is only a part-time member of the X-Men. So she can live with her parents and operate solo like Spider-Man in her own book, but she can also show up in the X-Men comics and it wouldn't be weird.

It's not the having solo adventures that seems to me a problem - it's the having to work out how to be a superhero for herself. If she's an X-Man there are immediately a whole host of actual mentors to talk everything over with, other heroes to train with, and so on.

[Spider-Tiger]

The idea synergy never works is just not true at all, let's be real here, synergy with the MCU is one of the main reasons Iron Man isn't still hated for Civil War, one of the reasons Guardians of the Galaxy can now be a consistently running book, heck it's synergy from the movies that gave us stuff like Magento's helmet making him to telepathic attacks.

Heck let's not forget, Kamala was only an Inhuman because of synergy, and would've been a mutant anyway if Ike Perlmutter didn't try forcing the Inhumans in the X-Men's spot.

Meanwhile some characters would be likely better off if they synergized with the movies, let's take Hank Pym for example, I'm sure most would've preferred he became the older mentor type instead being of merged with Ultron for the last few years.


Because in universe doesn't have any significance yet, it's a reveal for the audience because we know what term mutant means for the future, but the characters themselves it doesn't mean too much.
If they kept Kamala being an Inhuman, not much would change.

Depends on what you mean by "works." Can comic writers be inspired to repurpose ideas from other media in interesting ways for the comics? Absolutely. Look at Hickman's Ultimate which was admittedly inspired by Peter B. from the Spider-verse movies. But executive meddling for the sake of keeping the comics in-line with other media almost never works for the intended purpose, which is to attract movie-goers or causal audience members to books that look vaguely familiar. Those people are not going to suddenly walk into a comic shop because Kamala is a mutant. You're absolutely more likely to piss off or disenfranchise the people that are supporting those books. Which they did. The fact that the industry as a whole keeps declining despite repeatedly using these synergizing tactics is enough to suggest that it largely doesnt work. If people are interested in the X-men because of the movies enough to look into the comics, then they'll likely read them regardless of whatever is happening with Magneto's helmet or whether Mystique looks like Rebecca Romijn.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

It's not the having solo adventures that seems to me a problem - it's the having to work out how to be a superhero for herself. If she's an X-Man there are immediately a whole host of actual mentors to talk everything over with, other heroes to train with, and so on.

I mean, she already had that in the original run. She started out as an Avenger and Tony and Captain Marvel (and the Inhumans) would show up occassionally in her solo books to give her advice.

That part more or less played the same but with Inhuman and Avengers characters instead of X-Men.

[PhantomBoom]

Depends on what you mean by "works." Can comic writers be inspired to repurpose ideas from other media in interesting ways for the comics? Absolutely. Look at Hickman's Ultimate which was admittedly inspired by Peter B. from the Spider-verse movies. But executive meddling for the sake of keeping the comics in-line with other media almost never works for the intended purpose, which is to attract movie-goers or causal audience members to books that look vaguely familiar. Those people are not going to suddenly walk into a comic shop because Kamala is a mutant. You're absolutely more likely to piss off or disenfranchise the people that are supporting those books. Which they did. The fact that the industry as a whole keeps declining despite repeatedly using these synergizing tactics is enough to suggest that it largely doesnt work. If people are interested in the X-men because of the movies enough to look into the comics, then they'll likely read them regardless of whatever is happening with Magneto's helmet or whether Mystique looks like Rebecca Romijn.

I'm not sure what your point here is supposed to be, because you seem to arguing against things I didn't even say.

Like obviously no one who reads comics is gonna start reading them just because Kamala is a mutant, that doesn't mean nothing good can come out of the idea or made with it.

[Scott Taylor]

All of this is wrong. Kamala being revealed as a mutant isn't blink and miss it thing, it's treated as a significant reveal, the scene where this happens they also explicitly say Kamala never needed her bangles to use her powers, the bangle just unlocked her mutation. And in the Marvels Kamala still uses her powers without her bangle.

No its not.

[Spider-Tiger]

I'm not sure what your point here is supposed to be, because you seem to arguing against things I didn't even say.

Like obviously no one who reads comics is gonna start reading them just because Kamala is a mutant, that doesn't mean nothing good can come out of the idea or made with it.

I'm saying that someone like Kevin Feige or Perlmutter shouldn't be making these types of decisions or requests of the comics division. I don't even think this type of thing should necessarily be editorially driven. If a writer is inspired by other media and has a good story pitch for it, then that's not really the same as "synergizing" as in using an idea for the sake of developing a brand across media to attract an audience. It's putting story first. Not pushing an idea and coming up with the story for it later or altering/retconing an existing story.

I'm not saying Kamala should never be a mutant. Or that the idea can't work. But I interpreted your comment as being a response to my comment about synergy not working. And I was clarifying what I was referring to by that.

[marhawkman]

The idea synergy never works is just not true at all, let's be real here, synergy with the MCU is one of the main reasons Iron Man isn't still hated for Civil War

Bold of you to assume that has been forgotten. That was a "ruined forever" moment.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Bold of you to assume that has been forgotten. That was a "ruined forever" moment.

Quesada admitted that the only thing that saved Iron Man PR-wise was the 2008 movie/MCU.

[Frontier]

I think that's easy. She wants to protect the members of her community in Jersey City, so she is only a part-time member of the X-Men. So she can live with her parents and operate solo like Spider-Man in her own book, but she can also show up in the X-Men comics and it wouldn't be weird.

The X-Men don't really seem to believe in part-timers especially if you're popular and end up getting pulled into their events.

The idea synergy never works is just not true at all, let's be real here, synergy with the MCU is one of the main reasons Iron Man isn't still hated for Civil War, one of the reasons Guardians of the Galaxy can now be a consistently running book, heck it's synergy from the movies that gave us stuff like Magento's helmet making him to telepathic attacks.

Well, maybe not so consistently...and the issue with synergy is when they tried hard to make the team ape the movie, which didn't hit well.

Meanwhile some characters would be likely better off if they synergized with the movies, let's take Hank Pym for example, I'm sure most would've preferred he became the older mentor type instead being of merged with Ultron for the last few years.

I'd take young and in his prime Hank over both Old Man Hank and Pymtron (though I like Michael Douglas).

Because in universe doesn't have any significance yet, it's a reveal for the audience because we know what term mutant means for the future, but the characters themselves it doesn't mean too much.
If they kept Kamala being an Inhuman, not much would change.

I think it's more just her personality.

I mean, she already had that in the original run. She started out as an Avenger and Tony and Captain Marvel (and the Inhumans) would show up occassionally in her solo books to give her advice.

That part more or less played the same but with Inhuman and Avengers characters instead of X-Men.

And it kind of shows that she didn't really need the X-Men.

[marhawkman]

Quesada admitted that the only thing that saved Iron Man PR-wise was the 2008 movie/MCU.

Well part of what made it so satisfying watching the iron Man movies was just how much Tony gets his ass kicked. He has to have Pepper save him TWICE!

[Daibhidh]

I mean, she already had that in the original run. She started out as an Avenger and Tony and Captain Marvel (and the Inhumans) would show up occassionally in her solo books to give her advice.

That part more or less played the same but with Inhuman and Avengers characters instead of X-Men.

(She didn't start out as an Avenger: she wasn't an Avenger until after Secret Wars IIRC.) Tony and Carol and the Inhumans all had their own problems to deal with (and Tony and the Inhuman Royal Family at least have always been a bit self-involved), and mentoring wasn't their priority. Furthermore, there wasn't any instititutional authority: the relationship between experienced solo hero and newbie solo hero (who hero worships said experienced solo hero) is different from the relationship between a teacher and a pupil. Meeting your hero as a pupil is a different experience from meeting your hero as a peer however inexperienced.
Likewise, even if the Avengers could be divided into the experienced Avengers and the teenagers (Jane Foster complicated that), the Avengers are still formally a group of equals - while Tony, Jane, Sam, and Vision had guardianship responsibilities they weren't formalised.

Being a mutant in the Marvel Universe comes with a lot of baggage, and I didn't miss that baggage with Kamala. That said: the Inhuman baggage was probably worse except in the respect that there was less of it and it was easier to ignore.
(Kamala is a member of a real-world disadvantaged minority and mutants have always been a way to talk about that indirectly. That said, the way mutants work as a way to talk about being members of real-world disadvantaged minorities is complex and ambivalent. I think it works best for gay or trans rights, rather than for racial or cultural groups. The Inhumans, being a kingdom of elves, a society of technologically advanced isolationists with a problematic attitude to democracy and slave labour, are of course a terrible way to talk about disadvantaged minority groups within our society.)

tl;dr: I think I'm right but I can see your point.