Did Kevin Feige ask for Ms. Marvel's role in Dead Language?

[SturdyMike89]

When Kamala was created, she was made to be part of an initiative where Marvel made a big push towards making the Inhumans an important commercial property. Those plans came to nothing. The property failed as a TV show and as a comic book line even with big name creators working on them. If the Eternals movie (which was in the works BEFORE Disney closed its deal to buy FOX and secured the rights to the X-Men films back to Marvel) did well, she might have been revealed to be one of them, but it didn't happen. So, Ms. Marvel became a mutant. Kevin Feige wanted market synergy, so he went to Zeb Wells (or at least the editoral staff) to make this story happen. Why? Because he was working on the movie Kamala would appear next in (The Marvels) and he was writing one of Marvel's most popular comic books. I fully believe that Feige did not have any involvement past this. Why would he? He was only interested in making things line up. I am not going to go into the creative decision that led to them deciding to kill her off. I don't know how anyone felt about the decision, only that they made it. Someone above posted above about people either being too sensitive or reading too much into things in regard to Kamala's death happening in May during AAPI month. Here's the problem with that... Marvel released specials celebrating the month. They knew how special it was and had used Ms. Marvel as a vocal point for it. The second problem is that Marvel made a huge deal about there being a big death coming in Amazing #26. They wanted people to know. When the story "leaked" they got a lot of publicly out of it and milked it for all it's worth. They knew that the way they killed her, how it was carried out, how they selled it, and the ultimate end result would upset and anger people and they did not care. In fact, they were counting on it hoping to tick off as many people as possible. Why? Because an enraged audience is an engaged audience.

[Coop]

We'll never know how it actually went down. But I feel like probably Feige wanted Ms Marvel to be a mutant to match her MCU version and how the Marvels movie would tease the X-Men.

So when that request or directive came down, it was up the editorial and creative teams to execute. And comics people being comics people, it was decided that killing her was what gets the most attention and eyes on it. That's just how comics and Marvel work.

I'd like to believe killing her during AAPI month was either an oversight or a something forced by the needs of the business to match up with her return in other comics.

That said, my beef with the situation was the execution. Stuff like how little she was used in ASM and they way they acted like she was a major supporting character or had a role or impact on any of the characters. I think the moment she died most of the audience realized she would be Krakoa resurrected so I don't think a lot if people reading comics thought she was for real dead..

[ARkadelphia]

Is there any truth to the rumor that Fiege asked Wells to insert a new character into ASM due to the top secret Sony/Disney joint venture movie franchise called Paul Rabin: Reality Destroyer?

[Digifiend]

I think the egg in this particular case is squarely on Lowe's face, actually.

Feige's request makes sense--he's the big boss, and he wants the character retconned for synergy. Not much different from an EIC decision, honestly.

The story IN GENERALITY is sound: she dies, gets resurrected on Krakoa with a newfound discovery of her mutancy.

Wells' execution of the above is alright, suitably emotional. (bear with me here)

The idea to do it in an issue of Spider-Man (!) as a payoff to a long-gestating story (!!) and then have a wake issue (!!!) all to mime that she was dead for real, only to then resurrect her is monkey business, plain and simple. Lowe should've restructured the whole thing. Hell, I'll do it now: she's badly injured in Dead language, we retitle "Fallen Friend" to "Death of Ms Marvel", she dies from injuries mid-issue only to break outta an egg on the last page! Boom! Simple as.

That wouldn't have worked. If she was injured by any normal weapon, she'd just heal like Wolverine. There's two ways to kill her, electricity and magic. Not injuries.

Although still wish we could have avoided having a Muslim character pop up naked in front of other people.

Not to mention bringing her shapeshifting powers back out of nowhere just for the plot that killed her off.

They did have someone pass her a robe while she was still sat in the egg, so most people actually didn't see her naked. It did, however, out her secret identity to pretty much all of the mutants.

As for the shapeshifting, it was never gone, she just used it very rarely because she can't use her healing factor while shapeshifted (it should still trigger when she reverts to her usual form, but the dagger she was stabbed with also disabled it). She once used it in Iron Man to impersonate War Machine.

[TinkerSpider]

As for the shapeshifting, it was never gone, she just used it very rarely because she can't use her healing factor while shapeshifted (it should still trigger when she reverts to her usual form, but the dagger she was stabbed with also disabled it). She once used it in Iron Man to impersonate War Machine.

The issue isn’t so much the shapeshifting but that Kamala had sworn off shapeshifting into adult white women as she realized she was doing that out of internalized racism and subconsciously not accepting her own identity.

The other meta issue is that Kamala was shapeshifted into MJ despite Kamala not having a healing factor when she’s shapeshifted (thus leaving Kamala vulnerable to the bad guy, which defeats the whole purpose of Kamala being a protector/fighter in the battle - and indeed, Kamala is not at all active, just reactive and passive as she first runs away and then stands around waiting to be stabbed in the back) and also making a mockery of Kamala’s acceptance of herself, but that it was done solely as a bait and switch to trick the audience into thinking it was MJ whose death throes were so graphically lingered on.

They not only fridged Kamala, in a textbook classic case some two decades after Gail Simone first cataloged the trope, but Kamala was just a misdirect and a prop in her own death solely for a “haha gotcha!” to make the reader think they had murdered MJ to “celebrate” the 50th anniversary of Gwen’s murder. It’s an utterly nihilistic move, devoid of any emotion except cynicism.

As for the podcast, I hope Marvel takes this opportunity to offer its creatives media training. And this is also an instructive example why, for example, hearsay isn’t admissible in a court of law. Stick to what you’ve witnessed personally and can verify, folks, don’t repeat in a public forum gossip told to you by a buddy.

[Tuck]

The issue isn’t so much the shapeshifting but that Kamala had sworn off shapeshifting into adult white women as she realized she was doing that out of internalized racism and subconsciously not accepting her own identity.

What was the context of her decision not to shapeshift into white women? Was she doing it just to hide her identity?

Because that is different than doing it to save a life.

[Daibhidh]

Because that is different than doing it to save a life.

Standing around disguised as the bad guy's target so that the bad guy can stab you from behind is not a proactive way to go about saving lives.
(Did Kamala know that the bad guy only had one chance to kill somebody and would be defeated if he killed the wrong person? How did she know that the bad guy would chance across her first and not Mary Jane first? How did she even know that Mary Jane was the target? Are any of those questions answered on panel?)

When Mary Jane disguises herself as the bad gal's target she does so knowing where the bad gal is and has a plan for stopping the bad gal from killing her by stalling until MJ's allies defeat the bad gal.

[TinkerSpider]

What was the context of her decision not to shapeshift into white women? Was she doing it just to hide her identity?

Because that is different than doing it to save a life.

No, it wasn’t just to hide her identity, it’s more nuanced. You should read Ms. Marvel. It’s a great series.

And Kamala wasn’t saving a life - she was passive bait that got killed and left MJ wholly open to being killed, too. It was a stupid stupid plan. They had absolutely no way of knowing Wayep would deus ex machina out of the blue after being killed on page and take down Rabin. So all Kamala was doing by shapeshifting was signing both her and MJ’s death certificates.

[Tuck]

Standing around disguised as the bad guy's target so that the bad guy can stab you from behind is not a proactive way to go about saving lives.
(Did Kamala know that the bad guy only had one chance to kill somebody and would be defeated if he killed the wrong person? How did she know that the bad guy would chance across her first and not Mary Jane first? How did she even know that Mary Jane was the target? Are any of those questions answered on panel?)

When Mary Jane disguises herself as the bad gal's target she does so knowing where the bad gal is and has a plan for stopping the bad gal from killing her by stalling until MJ's allies defeat the bad gal.

She knew she had powers, and MJ didn't. I don't think she was planning on sacrificing herself.

[TinkerSpider]

She knew she had powers, and MJ didn't. I don't think she was planning on sacrificing herself.

MJ had powers, she had the gauntlet.

Kamala didn’t use her powers. She just shapeshifted, which leaves her vulnerable.

And that’s because the story wasn’t about MJ or Kamala at all. The story was just a comedy sketch with the punchline being “haha you killled the wrong girl, gotcha!” The bait and switch was the point, the characters were just inanimate props to get to the bait and switch.

And that had nothing to do with any mandate that may or may not have been handed down. That was purely a choice by the creative team.

[Tuck]

MJ had powers, she had the gauntlet.

Did Kamala know that? (If I recall, it was unclear when Peter even first knew about them.) And, importantly, using the powers could kill MJ.

Kamala didn’t use her powers. She just shapeshifted, which leaves her vulnerable.

Blame the writing.

[Daibhidh]

Did Kamala know that? (If I recall, it was unclear when Peter even first knew about them.)

it is unclear: from what I gather, Mary Jane asks Felicia not to tell Peter about them in the Mary Jane/ Black Cat miniseries; Mary Jane apparently told Peter about them in the flashback to a flashback in 25; she uses them in public in 26; and then Peter reacts as if he's never seen them before when he's possessed by the goblin sins.

Blame the writing.

We do. We do.

[TinkerSpider]

Did Kamala know that? (If I recall, it was unclear when Peter even first knew about them.) And, importantly, using the powers could kill MJ.

I’m not going back to read ASM 26, but MJ used the gauntlet in front of everyone IIRC. It’s also unclear whether MJ knew the gauntlet would kill her or just something bad - three skulls equaling death wasn’t firmly established until Jackpot #1. And that didn’t stop her from using the gauntlet copiously in the Dark Web mini - and here she is a specific target and fighting for her life.

Blame the writing.

Understatement of the millennium!

[PhantomBoom]

The Ms. Marvel TV Show, which Feige is in charge of, made her a mutant too so I can find it completely plausible that Feige would have tried to get that synergy going with the book and the cinematic direction for the character. But it remains a little strange because the mutant thing in the TV show was almost a "blink and you miss it moment" for all the impact it had. Plus it was a little odd to have the bangles in the first place, with the mutant thing looming. I sometimes wonder if TPTB at Marvel even understand what a mutant is supposed to be and it makes me concerned about the (theoretically) upcoming mutant introduction and if it will even take place. Marvels made no mention of Kamala's mutant power and still relied on the bangles.

That said, the death in the comics should not have been done. It was very ham-fisted and ended up doing nothing for the character.

All of this is wrong. Kamala being revealed as a mutant isn't blink and miss it thing, it's treated as a significant reveal, the scene where this happens they also explicitly say Kamala never needed her bangles to use her powers, the bangle just unlocked her mutation. And in the Marvels Kamala still uses her powers without her bangle.

[Spider-Tiger]

Even making Kamala a mutant to line up with the MCU is such a silly request if it came from Feige. How many more years of a shrinking market is it going to take for the big two to realize that trying to relaunch characters to line up with whatever is happening in other media serves no purpose than to potentially alienate your core readership. Movie-goers aren't going to suddenly drive over to comic shops to pick up the latest issue of Ms. Marvel just because Kamala is now a mutant.