Aren't all super-powered folks basically the same?

[Alan2099]

Other supers people don't worry about, because if you're a super powered person, you're either a superhero or a super villain. People don't hate superheroes because they're heroes. They're on your side. They're the good guys. Supervillains naturally get hated. Nobody makes a big deal out of because they're villains.

Mutants, however, anybody can be a mutant. That guy who cut you off in traffic? The jock who stole your girlfriend? That idiot that doesn't understand 10 items or less at the grocery store? Any of them could be a mutant. Mutants are normal people, and normal people are the worst. That's before you even get into the whole "Oh, no. We're good guys, we're just going to replace your species," stuff and the "Of course I had to poison everyone around me. That's my power! I have a right to use my power!"

[JB]

Propaganda plays a big part in it too. We saw in Mutant First Strike and Children of the Vault some of what Orchis was doing to pump hate and fear of mutants to the general public.

[Huntsman Spider]

Propaganda plays a big part in it too. We saw in Mutant First Strike and Children of the Vault some of what Orchis was doing to pump hate and fear of mutants to the general public.

And let's not forget the false flag operations to amplify preexisting human fear and hate of mutants, including poisoning the Krakoan medicines being offered to humanity for better health and greater longevity in exchange for learning to at least tolerate, if not fully and wholly accept, mutants existing. Oh, and speaking of testing for the X-gene, that was exactly what the U.S. and other governments were going to do in the run right before HOXPOX/Hickman got started, as a preliminary step to then injecting any children who tested positive for the X-gene with a vaccine that would negate it before it ever manifested, effectively a form of medical genocide, as the point was to curtail further mutant births and reduce the overall population to something more "manageable." That said, cosigning what others here have already said about bigotry and prejudice being innately irrational, although with the caveat that, as somebody here mentioned also, that bigotry and prejudice are often fomented for the purposes of targeting and isolating a minority population from society in general, making it easier to subjugate and/or eliminate that population outright, which tends to be the endgame.

[Havok83]

never really understand this argument. Real life bigotry and processes of racialization for example are also "baseless" and "arbitrary", but historically and socially manufactured and supported, changing from regional context to another, and you cannot tell fully by a person's appearance why it happens. Race does not exist! Still, some groups of people are racialized (as a process to dehumanize them, often for capitalist or colonial exploitation); may it be anti-Black racism, antisemitism, anti-slavic racism, or anti-latinx racism.

So, it makes sense to me that some superhumans are racialized as mutant in this world while others are not.

Perfect post. People act like bigortry and hatred has to be rational. 9 times out of 10, it isnt

[JB]

And let's not forget the false flag operations to amplify preexisting human fear and hate of mutants, including poisoning the Krakoan medicines being offered to humanity for better health and greater longevity in exchange for learning to at least tolerate, if not fully and wholly accept, mutants existing. Oh, and speaking of testing for the X-gene, that was exactly what the U.S. and other governments were going to do in the run right before HOXPOX/Hickman got started, as a preliminary step to then injecting any children who tested positive for the X-gene with a vaccine that would negate it before it ever manifested, effectively a form of medical genocide, as the point was to curtail further mutant births and reduce the overall population to something more "manageable." That said, cosigning what others here have already said about bigotry and prejudice being innately irrational, although with the caveat that, as somebody here mentioned also, that bigotry and prejudice are often fomented for the purposes of targeting and isolating a minority population from society in general, making it easier to subjugate and/or eliminate that population outright, which tends to be the endgame.

Well said.

[Huntsman Spider]

Well said.

Thanks. As for the issue of hate and fear of the so-called "other," it is often exploited and amplified by those who have the most to gain materially or otherwise from dividing and turning people against each other. After all, what was Orchis in the end but a catspaw for machine intelligences that wanted to annihilate all sapient organic life, but knew that humans and mutants together could overpower them, so made sure that they would be at each other's throats instead, never suspecting the true endgame until it was too late? Not as different from real life as one could assume, I'd say.

[LordUltimus]

It's been an in-universe thing since the eighties.

GJYpfyJXUAAdqLB.jpg

(That's John Walker Cap and Battlestar, BTW.)

[The Overlord]

Mutants are different, because they are born that way. Some humans are worried about being replaced. Some are scared of dangerous mutants.

Also, bigotry is irrational. Some humans might love Captain America and Thor and still hate mutants.

See, I understand people being bigoted toward mutants and loving Captain America, Cap is in a US-themed costume and fought in WWII. Heck, some heroes like Spider-Man and the Hulk are almost as unpopular as mutants. I don't buy that people who hate mutants would be cool with Thor. Thor would upend modern-day religions, many people would think Thor a heretic, Stryker and the Purifiers would hate Thor as much as they would mutants. People would hate that Thor is claiming to be a god. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are mutants, does no one care about the Avengers employing mutants? What about the Fantastic Four, is everyone cool with Franklin Richards being a mutant? Frankly, I think the X-Men work better in a world where they are the only superhumans, that makes more sense. You think you would have a human version of Gorr, the God Butcher at this point.

Heck, don't we have cross-over events where Asgardians or other characters from the other 9 realms mess with Earth? Seems like a ton of people would see Thor as someone attracts trouble to Earth.

However, I will say making the Friends of Humanity an anti-space alien group, rather than just an anti-mutant group, is a smart move from the writers.

[Huntsman Spider]

It's been an in-universe thing since the eighties.

GJYpfyJXUAAdqLB.jpg

(That's John Walker Cap and Battlestar, BTW.)

Battlestar was pretty much on point there.

See, I understand people being bigoted toward mutants and loving Captain America, Cap is in a US-themed costume and fought in WWII. Heck, some heroes like Spider-Man and the Hulk are almost as unpopular as mutants. I don't buy that people who hate mutants would be cool with Thor. Thor would upend modern-day religions, many people would think Thor a heretic, Stryker and the Purifiers would hate Thor as much as they would mutants. People would hate that Thor is claiming to be a god. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are mutants, does no one care about the Avengers employing mutants? What about the Fantastic Four, is everyone cool with Franklin Richards being a mutant? Frankly, I think the X-Men work better in a world where they are the only superhumans, that makes more sense. You think you would have a human version of Gorr, the God Butcher at this point.

Heck, don't we have cross-over events where Asgardians or other characters from the other 9 realms mess with Earth? Seems like a ton of people would see Thor as someone attracts trouble to Earth.

However, I will say making the Friends of Humanity an anti-space alien group, rather than just an anti-mutant group, is a smart move from the writers.

Funny enough, in the Heroes Return era of the Avengers after the failure of the original Heroes Reborn initiative, there was some controversy that forced the team to release their mutant members, which at the time not only included the Maximoff twins, but also Justice and Firestar, then formerly of the New Warriors. As for the Friends of Humanity switching to aliens after the King in Black event, they were primarily focused on the symbiotes left over from Knull's attack on Earth, as well as the ones that were there beforehand. Hell, your overall point was at least heavily alluded to, if not outright stated, in the original Civil War event, where the Stamford Incident that killed over 600 innocent people being blamed on the New Warriors, hence characterized as reckless rookies tainted all superheroes by association, regardless of how or where they got their powers, with the nonmutant superheroes being viewed with as much hate and fear by the public as mutants had been over the years, to the point Johnny Storm got beaten into a coma by an anti-superhero mob.

[Refrax5]

Well, a lot of superheroes are viewed with suspicion, mutant or not. But people understand where Cap or Iron Man come from. Someone like Daredevil or Moon Knight probably don't seem more than human. People ARE scared of Hulk and Spider-Man. I think there was an FF story where Reed says part of the reason he made the team public figures and merchandisable celebrities was to try to avoid the kind of fear and hatred that was directed at mutants. Even in Days of Future Past, the Sentinels wipe out the non-mutant heroes, too.

I think some of it is public perception, where you have all-American WW2 hero Cap and human genius Stark leading a very public team of heroes that have saved the world. The X-Men, despite their heroism, are seen as weirdos, kind of shifty and weird and reclusive.

But I also think mutants often have less anonymity. Nobody knows who or what Spider-Man or a lot of these masked guys are. But some kid growing kills in the middle of class or accidentally blowing up a school? That's a lot scarier. A lot of them are kids when they mutate. They do scary stuff or look frightening. There's something a lot scarier about it just randomly happening during a school day or with your kids friends that some anonymous masked guy fighting Green Goblin in Manhattan.

Also, bigotry isn't really logical. People hate each other over the weirdest things.

[The Overlord]

Battlestar was pretty much on point there.



Funny enough, in the Heroes Return era of the Avengers after the failure of the original Heroes Reborn initiative, there was some controversy that forced the team to release their mutant members, which at the time not only included the Maximoff twins, but also Justice and Firestar, then formerly of the New Warriors. As for the Friends of Humanity switching to aliens after the King in Black event, they were primarily focused on the symbiotes left over from Knull's attack on Earth, as well as the ones that were there beforehand. Hell, your overall point was at least heavily alluded to, if not outright stated, in the original Civil War event, where the Stamford Incident that killed over 600 innocent people being blamed on the New Warriors, hence characterized as reckless rookies tainted all superheroes by association, regardless of how or where they got their powers, with the nonmutant superheroes being viewed with as much hate and fear by the public as mutants had been over the years, to the point Johnny Storm got beaten into a coma by an anti-superhero mob.

Sure, but the general bigotry toward mutants remains, while stuff like anger towards the Avengers having mutant members or the main couple of the Fantastic Four having a mutant son or general distrust towards superhumans in the wake of Civil War, just seems to fade away.

Well, a lot of superheroes are viewed with suspicion, mutant or not. But people understand where Cap or Iron Man come from. Someone like Daredevil or Moon Knight probably don't seem more than human. People ARE scared of Hulk and Spider-Man. I think there was an FF story where Reed says part of the reason he made the team public figures and merchandisable celebrities was to try to avoid the kind of fear and hatred that was directed at mutants. Even in Days of Future Past, the Sentinels wipe out the non-mutant heroes, too.

I think some of it is public perception, where you have all-American WW2 hero Cap and human genius Stark leading a very public team of heroes that have saved the world. The X-Men, despite their heroism, are seen as weirdos, kind of shifty and weird and reclusive.

But I also think mutants often have less anonymity. Nobody knows who or what Spider-Man or a lot of these masked guys are. But some kid growing kills in the middle of class or accidentally blowing up a school? That's a lot scarier. A lot of them are kids when they mutate. They do scary stuff or look frightening. There's something a lot scarier about it just randomly happening during a school day or with your kids friends that some anonymous masked guy fighting Green Goblin in Manhattan.

Also, bigotry isn't really logical. People hate each other over the weirdest things.

My problem with that is, the people who are worried about mutant teens accidentally killing people when his or her powers develop, but are those people fine with Electro or Scorpion killing people while robbing a bank? What about Carnage, are people fine with a super-powered serial killer just because he is not a mutant?

Are people fine with Thor when Malekith the Accursed invades Earth to kill Thor?

I can get it when Cap or Iron Man gets a pass, but I doubt Thor would get the same pass. I think Tony would catch more heat nowadays, a lot of people dislike billionaires nowadays. Tony would not get it as badly as the average mutant, but he would get less of a pass than the past and I do think there would be more human allies towards mutants.

[cranger]

Sure, but the general bigotry toward mutants remains, while stuff like anger towards the Avengers having mutant members or the main couple of the Fantastic Four having a mutant son or general distrust towards superhumans in the wake of Civil War, just seems to fade away.



My problem with that is, the people who are worried about mutant teens accidentally killing people when his or her powers develop, but are those people fine with Electro or Scorpion killing people while robbing a bank? What about Carnage, are people fine with a super-powered serial killer just because he is not a mutant?

Are people fine with Thor when Malekith the Accursed invades Earth to kill Thor?

I can get it when Cap or Iron Man gets a pass, but I doubt Thor would get the same pass. I think Tony would catch more heat nowadays, a lot of people dislike billionaires nowadays. Tony would not get it as badly as the average mutant, but he would get less of a pass than the past and I do think there would be more human allies towards mutants.

There are thousands of stories over six decades by hundreds of creative teams. All of those things, human allies of mutants and non-mutants heroes being hated, can be found in the stories at some point. This issue has more to do with there not being a consistent depiction of the common person in the MU nor a deliberate balance of stories. For some reason X-Men writers keep going back to this one idea and make it more extreme each time and forget to end it with the part where the X-Men save the day and everyone loves them.

[Icefanatic]

Much of the fear and hatred of Mutants can be laid at the feet of Magneto, his followers and his emulators.

He declared Mutants were 'Homo Superior', humanity's betters, destined from birth(or from the womb) to rule over humans... to subjugate them... to enslave them... to eradicate them at whim.

Before Magneto attacked and took control of Camp Citadel and its weapons, the average person didn't seem to know what a mutant was or even that they existed. In one move, Magneto basically cast mutants as an invasive species that by virtue of existing would rule over the Earth and everyone on it. Thereafter, by virtue of simply existing, mutants would represent a threat to everyone on Earth.

Historically, If it wasn't for good mutants like the X-Men, the fear and hate would likely be near-universal, and not without cause.

[Huntsman Spider]

Much of the fear and hatred of Mutants can be laid at the feet of Magneto, his followers and his emulators.

He declared Mutants were 'Homo Superior', humanity's betters, destined from birth(or from the womb) to rule over humans... to subjugate them... to enslave them... to eradicate them at whim.

Before Magneto attacked and took control of Camp Citadel and its weapons, the average person didn't seem to know what a mutant was or even that they existed. In one move, Magneto basically cast mutants as an invasive species that by virtue of existing would rule over the Earth and everyone on it. Thereafter, by virtue of simply existing, mutants would represent a threat to everyone on Earth.

Historically, If it wasn't for good mutants like the X-Men, the fear and hate would likely be near-universal, and not without cause.

Fair points. What Magneto did at the beginning (and sometimes continues to do) was and is terribly counterproductive for mutant rights, though frankly, Xavier trying too hard out of some misplaced need to prove himself noble and good to be conciliatory toward people who basically, if not literally, want to wipe them out of existence, or wouldn't mind or care if they were all wiped out of existence one day has ultimately done more harm than good for mutants as well. In a nutshell, neither of them represent the best or even a good path forward for mutants in the future, and Krakoa will ultimately (and sadly) be the final testament to the utter failure of them both, whether individually or together. Magneto massacring humans without bothering to distinguish between innocent and guilty, or at least "combatants and noncombatants," provides cover to those human bigots who do use him as justification to wipe out all mutants, and Xavier insisting (until recently) that mutants --- the ones under his leadership, at any rate --- are to always turn the other cheek even when threatened with or subjected to literal genocide and/or other forms of systemic violence imbues the same bigots with a sense of impunity that ends up enabling them to commit more anti-mutant atrocities. If there is to be any hope for mutants to survive and thrive into the future, they have to move beyond Magneto and Xavier alike.

[Refrax5]

Sure, but the general bigotry toward mutants remains, while stuff like anger towards the Avengers having mutant members or the main couple of the Fantastic Four having a mutant son or general distrust towards superhumans in the wake of Civil War, just seems to fade away.



My problem with that is, the people who are worried about mutant teens accidentally killing people when his or her powers develop, but are those people fine with Electro or Scorpion killing people while robbing a bank? What about Carnage, are people fine with a super-powered serial killer just because he is not a mutant?

Are people fine with Thor when Malekith the Accursed invades Earth to kill Thor?

I can get it when Cap or Iron Man gets a pass, but I doubt Thor would get the same pass. I think Tony would catch more heat nowadays, a lot of people dislike billionaires nowadays. Tony would not get it as badly as the average mutant, but he would get less of a pass than the past and I do think there would be more human allies towards mutants.

I think they definitely are, but Scorpion is a guy in a technological costume. I don't think people DO like supervillains robbing banks, but some of these guys have public records and likely information out there about them. Or they don't and their anonymity means people don't know what their deal is. Some of them use technology, some of them have powers, some don't, but a lot of them wear masks and costumes and probably are less frightening than the idea that your child or neighbor might suddenly be able to read your mind or burn your face off or whatever. I feel like the idea that they're mankind's evolutionary replacement would unnerve people, but it's more the fact that they seem to pop up in everyday life and seem more dangerous and freakish and closer to home than these supervillain fights they see on the news.

But like I said, it's been shown many times in Marvel that a lot of people hate and mistrust any superhuman.

I think hating someone for being a billionaire is different than hating someone out of racism.

Think about it, though. A lot of Jewish people don't really look all that different from anyone else, their religion or behavior or whatever else isn't anything dramatically different from any other religion. But there is crazy amounts of anti-semitism in the world. It's such weird, minor, barely noticeable difference between them and everybody else. But there's all these stupid stereotypes and negative perceptions against them that cause people to hate them.

The same thing applies to pretty much any group. Gay people aren't different from straight people except in who they're attracted to, but they're still hated by people for all kinds of ridiculous reasons. Like I said, it's all about perception. Human beings will find any small difference, any minor distinction, to see one group of people as "other" and hate them for it. It's irrational and insane, but it's very true.

And as others have said, mutant terrorist groups who attack people with a loud pro-mutant manifesto, make people angry and afraid of the whole group. Look how people treated any middle eastern person after 9/11. They were so paranoid and angry about Muslim terrorists, they decided any Muslim or anyone that even looked like they were from that part of the world was to be feared.

So many things will cause a culture to turn on some random group of people. So many racial issues come from stereotypes and negative perception when the differences between us are pretty inconsequential when you look at them objectively.