Titans Together! Teen Titans Appreciation

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't see how the lasso is an issue, the Wonder characters have lassos like the bat-family have batarangs and variations of it. Same with trick arrows and the GA characters.

If Diana sticks with sword, shield, and lasso then Donna would already be different if she had just a lasso. Plus they have different abilities. The Lasso of Persuasion gives Donna the ability to have limited control over others if their will is weaker than hers and it's supposed to be silver in color. The Lasso of Truth compels others to tell the truth and can free others from enchantments.

Donna's not a Wonder Girl anymore. It's one thing for Wonder Girl, a.k.a mini Wonder Woman sidekick, to run around with a lasso and bracelets like her mentor. Donna's an adult now and needs more visual distinction. Visuals are key, especially with these big characters that have larger than life personas and costumes to identify them at a glance. By putting a black haired Amazon warrior at the forefront of this superhero team with a lasso, bracelets, a shield and a sword, you're basically communicating to the audience that this team is not distinct from the JL that has the actual Wonder Woman on it. Same with there being an archer on this team, except this one wears red instead of green. Or an Atlantean that wears blue instead of gold and green.

This is the problem with putting the Fab 5 in particular at the forefront of the adult Titans, at least as they are now. On a basic visual level, they look like a group of lesser Justice League stand ins. Donna wearing something like her star field costume, lacking Amazon weapons Wonder Woman is way more famous for carrying, and having some extra abilities like her original Troia powers would be far better for her. Same with Roy being Arsenal and Garth being Tempest.

[byrd156]

Donna's not a Wonder Girl anymore. It's one thing for Wonder Girl, a.k.a mini Wonder Woman sidekick, to run around with a lasso and bracelets like her mentor. Donna's an adult now and needs more visual distinction. Visuals are key, especially with these big characters that have larger than life personas and costumes to identify them at a glance. By putting a black haired Amazon warrior at the forefront of this superhero team with a lasso, bracelets, a shield and a sword, you're basically communicating to the audience that this team is not distinct from the JL that has the actual Wonder Woman on it. Same with there being an archer on this team, except this one wears red instead of green. Or an Atlantean that wears blue instead of gold and green.

This is the problem with putting the Fab 5 in particular at the forefront of the adult Titans, at least as they are now. On a basic visual level, they look like a group of lesser Justice League stand ins. Donna wearing something like her star field costume, lacking Amazon weapons Wonder Woman is way more famous for carrying, and having some extra abilities like her original Troia powers would be far better for her. Same with Roy being Arsenal and Garth being Tempest.

I'm advocating for Troia to come back, I'm not saying she should be Wonder Girl or that she should have what she has now. The Lasso of Persuasion was a Troia thing, not a Wonder Girl thing. Which has different powers and abilities from Diana. This is already very visually different from Wonder Woman.



This is already very visually different from Wonder Woman. What they have been doing with her since the reboot has been regression after regression. Getting rid of her history, her name, her hero status for a while, her origin (again), her weapons, her design, etc.

[Rac7d*]

Donna's not a Wonder Girl anymore. It's one thing for Wonder Girl, a.k.a mini Wonder Woman sidekick, to run around with a lasso and bracelets like her mentor. Donna's an adult now and needs more visual distinction. Visuals are key, especially with these big characters that have larger than life personas and costumes to identify them at a glance. By putting a black haired Amazon warrior at the forefront of this superhero team with a lasso, bracelets, a shield and a sword, you're basically communicating to the audience that this team is not distinct from the JL that has the actual Wonder Woman on it. Same with there being an archer on this team, except this one wears red instead of green. Or an Atlantean that wears blue instead of gold and green.

This is the problem with putting the Fab 5 in particular at the forefront of the adult Titans, at least as they are now. On a basic visual level, they look like a group of lesser Justice League stand ins. Donna wearing something like her star field costume, lacking Amazon weapons Wonder Woman is way more famous for carrying, and having some extra abilities like her original Troia powers would be far better for her. Same with Roy being Arsenal and Garth being Tempest.

Lol she needs the lasso so people know she is part of the WW family
if anything she needs a actual codename But her lasso is iconic and her origin make the sword and shield sensible she is a warrior

besides after the next titans episode the lasso will be her signature weapon its already done, that gonn be the biggest media visual for Donna ever

[SiegePerilous02]

I'm advocating for Troia to come back, I'm not saying she should be Wonder Girl or that she should have what she has now. The Lasso of Persuasion was a Troia thing, not a Wonder Girl thing. Which has different powers and abilities from Diana. This is already very visually different from Wonder Woman.



This is already very visually different from Wonder Woman. What they have been doing with her since the reboot has been regression after regression. Getting rid of her history, her name, her hero status for a while, her origin (again), her weapons, her design, etc.

That costume is precisely what I want for her. She looks like a Wonder Woman in a black costume now (with pants) and it sucks. But don't put a lasso on it and kill some of the visual distinction she gets that separates her from Diana.

The Lasso of Persuasion looks like one of many powers they tried to slap onto her as Troia that didn't stick. It's powers are different from Diana's lasso only because DC refuses to let the Magic Lasso have its Golden Age power set. That is still just giving Donna something that Diana did first. Let Wonder Woman's Magic lasso function the way it was meant to function and give Donna something else.

Lol she needs the lasso so people know she is part of the WW family

Showing them together more often would be enough to do that, as would the bracelets (which, as an Amazon, they should probably keep). Homogenizing the looks of the Wonder family sounds incredibly boring to me. And again, just communicates that every team gets a Wonder, thus making any team with a Wonder on it seem like a discount JL. Not a problem for the teen sidekicks, but Donna isn't a teen sidekick. And the Titans have enough problems getting out of the JL's shadow already, having their five lead members visually look like copies of major JL members is doing them no favors. It's why Dick's first Nightwing costume being various flashy shades of blue, while dated, was probably a better step to distance him from Batman. That and he didn't lurk in the shadows as much. Now he's just one more member of the Bat-Family, and they all do that.

But her lasso is iconic and her origin make the sword and shield sensible she is a warrior

besides after the next titans episode the lasso will be her signature weapon its already done, that gonn be the biggest media visual for Donna ever

The lasso is iconic when associated with Wonder Girl. Unless we want her to be Wonder Girl again (and no can do with Cassie coming back), ditch the lasso.

Yeah, Donna is being well received in other media. But that Donna is Wonder Girl, and the only Wonder Girl that ever was. Same as Dick only just getting around to giving up the Robin identity in the show now instead of being Nightwing for years. It's not simple to transplant what is working in the show into the comics, because the comics did all that stuff already. The show is not burdened by years on continuity, and gets to tell these stories to a wider audiences, whereas it's all a rehash to us and wouldn't work in the comics. Do something else.

[Raijin]

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I don't know what's more impressive. Roy having an atomic bomb arrow in his arsenal or Raven tanking an atomic bomb arrow.

[Godlike13]

I don't see how the lasso is an issue, the Wonder characters have lassos like the bat-family have batarangs and variations of it. Same with trick arrows and the GA characters.

If Diana sticks with sword, shield, and lasso then Donna would already be different if she had just a lasso. Plus they have different abilities. The Lasso of Persuasion gives Donna the ability to have limited control over others if their will is weaker than hers and it's supposed to be silver in color. The Lasso of Truth compels others to tell the truth and can free others from enchantments.

Donna’s basically a clone, but Donna can not just continue to be a clone of Diana. Dick doesn’t really go around throwing Batarangs, he has his own signature sticks. Having his own signature weapons has been very advantageous for Dick and the Nightwing identity. The Fab Five on general need desperately to get away from being general clones of their mentors. So the lasso, the sword and shield, that stuff needs to go imo. It’s doesn’t do Donna any favors.

The thing I liked most about the TV show Donna is how immersed she is in the current world. Shes a modern woman. That’s what I think they should embrace with Donna. Sell her as the modern amazon.

What would be unique, a gladiator net?

A gun. But I don’t know exactly, just something that would be unique to her. At least in her circle. My preference would be something more modern.

[Raijin]

Maybe she just doesn't need a weapon.

[Godlike13]

Maybe she just doesn't need a weapon.

Thats fine too. My real point is that i think Donna needs things that will help her stand apart and be less of a clone. Ill take no weapon over a sword and shield or lasso at this point.

[Raijin]

Thats fine too. My real point is that i think Donna needs things that will help her stand apart and be less of a clone. Ill take no weapon over a sword and shield or lasso at this point.

You mentioned her being the 'modern amazon' which is funny because i always thought it would be cool if she used technological weapons along with her physical abilities, leaving the ancient weaponry to Diana. Kinda like if Red Sonja had access to the X-O Manowar armor.

[byrd156]

Thats fine too. My real point is that i think Donna needs things that will help her stand apart and be less of a clone. Ill take no weapon over a sword and shield or lasso at this point.

That clone argument doesn't hold much weight when there are so many other variations of the same power sets out there. Why are those okay and not Donna?

Blaming things on looks or weapons or powers feels pointless and short-sighted. If Donna appears prominently in a bunch of good stories this talk would fade away. This issue like many we talk about comes down to the characters being misused, under-appreciated, or being used in bad stories with these characters. As much as I dislike Jason Todd's modern direction under anyone who isn't Morrison, he really proves my point. Jason was given so much and kept getting story after story, (even though a lot of his stuff was bad) they managed to carve out an audience for him simply because of a popular story and an animated adaptation of that story. You do the same with literally any other character and they can become big. It was the character work and care put into the character that brought him up, not the weapons or any of that other stuff.

Donna being used in Titans feels like DC having the opportunity to take a new first step with her in a long time.

[WonderNight]

Thats fine too. My real point is that i think Donna needs things that will help her stand apart and be less of a clone. Ill take no weapon over a sword and shield or lasso at this point.

Have any of you herd of maya form killer instinct? I think donna with her weapons would be cool. There's a trailer for the character on youtube.

[Godlike13]

That clone argument doesn't hold much weight when there are so many other variations of the same power sets out there. Why are those okay and not Donna?

Blaming things on looks or weapons or powers feels pointless and short-sighted. If Donna appears prominently in a bunch of good stories this talk would fade away. This issue like many we talk about comes down to the characters being misused, under-appreciated, or being used in bad stories with these characters. As much as I dislike Jason Todd's modern direction under anyone who isn't Morrison, he really proves my point. Jason was given so much and kept getting story after story, (even though a lot of his stuff was bad) they managed to carve out an audience for him simply because of a popular story and an animated adaptation of that story. You do the same with literally any other character and they can become big. It was the character work and care put into the character that brought him up, not the weapons or any of that other stuff.

Donna being used in Titans feels like DC having the opportunity to take a new first step with her in a long time.

Cause not everyone else looks exactly like each other. Donna has the same power set, looks almost identical, and uses the same signature weapons. It’s actually rather silly how much of a clone she is, so much so that right now she is literally a clone theses days.

And what? Jason does not prove you point, Jason proves the opposite of your point. With his return Jason was basically completely overhauled as Red Hood. They brought him back under a new name, armed him with guns and knifes, put a helmet over his head, and gave him a new rather controversial disposition that ran contrary with the characters around him. It’s a ridiculous over simplification to contribute his success to just getting story after story, that completely ignores what they actually did with him in those stories.

[kjn]

What byrd156 said. What Donna needs isn't a forced deviation from Diana, but an organic one. That should primarily be based on stories she is in or personality: looks and equipment are transient and secondary. Preferably, a former sidekick should have elements that both tie them to and differentiate them from their past.

The lasso can serve very nicely as the signature weapon (and tool) of the Wonder Woman family. The black jumpsuit with stars easily helps to differentiate her from Wonder Woman. It'd also help if artists were able to draw her face and body to look slightly different from Diana as well, but that'd require DC to stick to a sensible origin story.

[byrd156]

Cause not everyone else looks exactly like each other. Donna has the same power set, looks almost identical, and uses the same signature weapons. It’s actually rather silly how much of a clone she is, that right she is literally a clone theses days. And Jason does not prove you point, Jason proves the opposite of your point. With his return Jason was basically completely overhauled as Red Hood. They brought him back under a new name, armed him with guns, put a helmet over his head, and gave him a new rather controversial disposition. It’s ridiculously over simplification to contribute his success to just getting story after story, and completely ignores what they actually did in those stories.

I disagree, my main point is character work. Dick, Bruce, Jason, Tim, and Damian are all white guys with black hair. Power Girl and Supergirl are both blondes and Conner is a literal clone of Superman. Why does this matter so much for Donna and not anyone else? What matters is character work, that leads to more stories. It's not an over simplification at all, he had many different looks over that time with different weapons being used before a finalized arsenal of weapons that still keep changing. You are more focused on the surface-level details, I don't think those make the characters. Something like the Sword of Atom for example explores a character while changing almost all the surface level details while being true to who they are. Donna is more than a costume or a lasso or a sword & shield. You can think those matter more than getting stories focused around her, I don't.

[Godlike13]

It matter's for them too. No one has said it doesn't. Not being Batman-lite is a huge challenge that Dick faces. But he doesn't really go around wearing a cowl and throwing Batarangs. He has signature characteristics and features that help set him apart. Its not ok to be clone. Saying what matters is character work, that leads to more stories is an over simplification. Your completely ignoring the actual character work with Jason. Things like a character's look, abilities, and signature tools are important. These are the first things that make an impression on an audience. Its really not as simple as all a character needs is stories. Thats so general and over simplified.