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  1. #5851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Trigon and Brother Blood are imo kind of one note, they made one good story but aren't really that reusable. And Blackfire makes imo only sense if you have Starfire on the team.
    Trigon especially I'd say. They've tried multiple times to recapture Terror of Trigon and failed every single time. That story worked because of all the build up to it and because of how much of a threat Trigon was, but the build up can't work more than once and once Trigon's been defeated once, multiple times now, he loses his menace. And menace is all he had going for him, because Trigon is as generic an evil demon lord as you can get.

  2. #5852
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    One of my big issues with this team is that they don't act like a modern 21 year olds. They either act like they are 12 or 40, all while looking like something out of the 90's. They are a bunch of out of date dorks, with no self confidence, and who's cool hang out is a old pizza joint.
    They really do like they are from the 90s. I hate this art so much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Trigon and Brother Blood are imo kind of one note, they made one good story but aren't really that reusable. And Blackfire makes imo only sense if you have Starfire on the team.
    Well, if I had my way, Starfire would be in the main book with the people who are actually her age, but that is unfortunately not to be.

    Trigon only works sparingly I agree, but they could still explore the lore connected to him, like introducing some other demons. Blood may be one note, but then, so are the Fearsome Five and we got a whole arc out of them. I think he has more to work with, but Abnett probably wouldn't be a good choice to deliver.

  3. #5853
    Astonishing Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Why Titans has been awful since Rebirth in a nutshell. How am I supposed to take this character as important heroes with that kind of interactions and dialogue ?
    So people that have been friends for years can not just sit around and relax and joke with each other? Would you rather see a panel with them all sitting around a table looking at their phones not speaking? What is it to you that would make them seem "important"? These are 3 people who could wreck most villains they went up against on their own without even needing the rest of the team with them.

  4. #5854
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    Something tells me that in the aftermath of Rebirth and Doomsday clock that the Teen Titans teams will undergo a massive reboot and restoring of their old history, Cyborg included.

  5. #5855
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    So what, you seriously think someone who gives zero shits about Superman would consider buying a shirt with his symbol on it because it might look good? I mean that's a factor, but if you buy it people are going to assume you are a Superman fan because they will recognize it instantly. People don't dish out money on stuff they only have a passing interest in. You're right that the a TV series or movie would need to back itself up with quality to get people to see it, but the same holds true for the Titans, and their uphill climb is bigger because their names alone are not enough to get the same degree of initial attention. They haven't even been able to consistently sustain a comic series over the past few decades.

    As for Cyborg, what are the numbers that indicate he is popular on his own to sustain a franchise? The book being crappy is an excuse, but what is the non-anecdotal evidence that people would rush to a Cyborg ongoing?
    I've met people who bought Superman shirts just because they thought they looked good and didn't really care for the character all that much. This isn't as unusual as you think.

    As for the Titans, you'll notice that while their comics frequently struggle they do much better in other media like animation so my point stands. Quality of product can be more important than brand name.

  6. #5856
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    They really do like they are from the 90s. I hate this art so much.




    Well, if I had my way, Starfire would be in the main book with the people who are actually her age, but that is unfortunately not to be.

    Trigon only works sparingly I agree, but they could still explore the lore connected to him, like introducing some other demons. Blood may be one note, but then, so are the Fearsome Five and we got a whole arc out of them. I think he has more to work with, but Abnett probably wouldn't be a good choice to deliver.
    Brother Blood would be better if writers focused more on the cult aspects of his gimmick instead of only focusing on his connections to Trigon(honestly connecting him to Trigon was a bad idea). The Fearsome Five could be entertaining if writers actually bothered to give them personalities.

  7. #5857
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Something tells me that in the aftermath of Rebirth and Doomsday clock that the Teen Titans teams will undergo a massive reboot and restoring of their old history, Cyborg included.
    I don't think that is going to happen. If that was the plan then they wouldn't have done the Lazarus Contract story in Rebirth since it makes the Judas Contract story unable to have happened. Also I don't think they will ever restore Cyborg as a Titan beyond him maybe appearing here or there. He doesn't really fit with the Titans if he is a founding League member.

  8. #5858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    They wouldn't even make sense with the current Titans team, although I guess Blood can be stretched to fit any variant on the team.
    Yeah Trigon without Raven on the team is also not really working.


    The only villains from the NTT era you can imo easily reuse for different stories are the the Fearsome Five and The Brotherhood of Evil (but without Beast Boy on the team the connection to them is also not really there).

    Potentially also H.I.V.E. but these guys are also kind of generic (at least in pre flashpoint Titan comics, the new 52 version seems more distinctive but had sofar not much to do with the Titans).

  9. #5859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I don't think that is going to happen. If that was the plan then they wouldn't have done the Lazarus Contract story in Rebirth since it makes the Judas Contract story unable to have happened. Also I don't think they will ever restore Cyborg as a Titan beyond him maybe appearing here or there. He doesn't really fit with the Titans if he is a founding League member.
    Superman Reborn already retconned this. The JL have now been active for a lot more than five years, and the team were reuniting after a hiatus, not forming for the first time, in New 52 Justice League #1 (so John Stewart and Martian Manhunter had their JL histories restored). That means Cyborg is no longer a founder, though his origin still happened in that adventure, meaning his Titans history is still not there.

  10. #5860
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I've met people who bought Superman shirts just because they thought they looked good and didn't really care for the character all that much. This isn't as unusual as you think.
    That evidence is completely anecdotal though. Compared to the amount of merchandise moved, how many people actually told you that? And regardless, all the company sees is the $$.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    As for the Titans, you'll notice that while their comics frequently struggle they do much better in other media like animation so my point stands. Quality of product can be more important than brand name.
    This is true, but the cartoons and DTVs that are very successful also largely pull from the same sources. The Teen Titans cartoon had several nods to various issues from the comics, and dedicated entire arcs to adapting the Judas Contract and Terror of Trigon. The first DTV adapted the first arc from NTT with Trigon, and the second adapted...the Judas Contract. Plus they tossed Damian into a franchise that he has no part of to boost appeal and sales. This proves that their property has a period of the source material that will always be iconic and easily adaptable to provide inspiration for other media stories, but is not helping the creative lurch the comics have been in since arguably Perez left the first time and the gradual decline began. And in the case of the DTVs, is also relying on featuring a very popular but completely unrelated Bat-character for extra sales.

  11. #5861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I could have liked it, if peoples everywhere weren't assuring me that those three are important characters and all. Here, all I see is adults who haven't grown up at all since their early teenage years. I've nothing against staying young in one's mind, but then don't try to push them as those incredible characters. The fact that Dick is the only one I care about in this team doesn't help at all, obviously.
    Do you want them to do their taxes together?

    I like that the titans have fun, their now less adults now

  12. #5862
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    That evidence is completely anecdotal though. Compared to the amount of merchandise moved, how many people actually told you that? And regardless, all the company sees is the $$.



    This is true, but the cartoons and DTVs that are very successful also largely pull from the same sources. The Teen Titans cartoon had several nods to various issues from the comics, and dedicated entire arcs to adapting the Judas Contract and Terror of Trigon. The first DTV adapted the first arc from NTT with Trigon, and the second adapted...the Judas Contract. Plus they tossed Damian into a franchise that he has no part of to boost appeal and sales. This proves that their property has a period of the source material that will always be iconic and easily adaptable to provide inspiration for other media stories, but is not helping the creative lurch the comics have been in since arguably Perez left the first time and the gradual decline began. And in the case of the DTVs, is also relying on featuring a very popular but completely unrelated Bat-character for extra sales.
    Okay how many Superman shirts do you think get bought? Again, this is vastly different from adaptations.

    Tv shows and movies rarely if ever do anything for sales. And the Titans cartoon had other things going for it. It didn't just rely on NTT era or characters and even the NTT it used they took liberties with like Slade and Terra.

  13. #5863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Tv shows and movies rarely if ever do anything for sales. And the Titans cartoon had other things going for it. It didn't just rely on NTT era or characters and even the NTT it used they took liberties with like Slade and Terra.
    Also, you know, none of the main cast acted anything like their comic counterparts.

    With the same quality of writing, that show could have made ANY group of Titans as 'iconic' as the Wolfman characters are now.

  14. #5864
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Also, you know, none of the main cast acted anything like their comic counterparts.
    I don't think they were that different from their comic counterparts, or at least I think the changes they made didn't make them that unrecognizable from their comic versions where it counted.
    With the same quality of writing, that show could have made ANY group of Titans as 'iconic' as the Wolfman characters are now.
    I mean, the show actually used the Fab Five (aside from Donna, who they couldn't use) and other Titans, if not as much as they did the main cast.

    The tie-in comic even did it's own Fab Five issue.

  15. #5865
    Every Second was a Gift Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I don't think that is going to happen. If that was the plan then they wouldn't have done the Lazarus Contract story in Rebirth since it makes the Judas Contract story unable to have happened. Also I don't think they will ever restore Cyborg as a Titan beyond him maybe appearing here or there. He doesn't really fit with the Titans if he is a founding League member.
    The Button and Superman Reborn retconned that whole 'Founder' issue out showing J'onn as a League founder in the 10 years stolen by Manhattan. As for Cyborg's Titan's past I think we'll see his New 52 Origin retconned too, allowing him the Titans as part of his past, but let him remain a League Member at the same time: Think like Injustice Cyborg (A League Member with a Titans Past) or the Young Justice cartoon- where Zatanna was a member of the Team who then moved on to the League.

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