Titans Together! Teen Titans Appreciation

[Rise]

What are you even talking about, Lobdell had the freedom to reinvent his team and its characters. Which he did. His ideas just sucked.

The fact that Lobdell himself said they have been changing things behind his back. He also revealed in recent interview how much control the editors have (I mean you even have a link above you that show you an example of editors doing what they want).

Everything else you said is subjective and we already went through your "hatred" of RHATO years ago. You not liking Lobdell's style doesn't mean he is bad writer with bad ideas, he just doesn't suit your taste while it suit others. It's not the end of the world if you don't like something and it doesn't make it "objectively" bad.

[kurenai24]

May have already been posted about but...

Teen Titans #20 is delayed and Titans #23 will come early.

~~

So this is how Teen Titans wants to begin their fresh (kind of) start ...at least it's still in the same month.

[Badou]

These books are going to be cancelled and relaunched once Doomsday Clock finishes next year anyway I imagine. It is the reason why they aren't going to relaunch them now. Maybe excluding the Teen Titans, since they are trying out some new characters and dynamics there, I don't think DC cares at all what happens in the Titans book. It is just a containment book for these characters DC doesn't know what to do with. Characters that have escaped the Titans like Starfire are lucky.

The fact that Lobdell himself said they have been changing things behind his back. He also revealed in recent interview how much control the editors have (I mean you even have a link above you that show you an example of editors doing what they want).

The thing is that nearly every single writer in the New 52 was dealing with the same things with editorial meddling. It wasn't just Lobdell and his books. Some were still able to create good quality stories despite it and give good voices to their characters. Overwhelmingly Lobdell failed in doing that, imo. I didn't care for any of his Teen Titans characters, I thought his Starfire was awful, but I remember clearly how Roy fans were frustrated with his Roy in Outlaws because he wasn't getting any focus and not doing much. He was basically being used as comic relief. Funny enough the only character I felt Abnett gave a shit about was Roy but his fans don't seem to like him here.

[JasonTodd428]

These books are going to be cancelled and relaunched once Doomsday Clock finishes next year anyway I imagine. It is the reason why they aren't going to relaunch them now. Maybe excluding the Teen Titans, since they are trying out some new characters and dynamics there, I don't think DC cares at all what happens in the Titans book. It is just a containment book for these characters DC doesn't know what to do with. Characters that have escaped the Titans like Starfire are lucky.

Yep the characters that have escaped Titans are very lucky indeed. I just wish that Nightwing had managed to escape with them. I'd much rather see him on one of those JL teams then remaining stuck in Titans. He really should have been on one of those teams instead if DC has any interest in elevating him.

The thing is that nearly every single writer in the New 52 was dealing with the same things with editorial meddling. It wasn't just Lobdell and his books. Some were still able to create good quality stories despite it and give good voices to their characters. Overwhelmingly Lobdell failed in doing that, imo. I didn't care for any of his Teen Titans characters, I thought his Starfire was awful, but I remember clearly how Roy fans were frustrated with his Roy in Outlaws because he wasn't getting any focus and not doing much. He was basically being used as comic relief. Funny enough the only character I felt Abnett gave a shit about was Roy but his fans don't seem to like him here.

I agree with you that Lobdell's Teen Titans was a total disaster (though I did really like Bunker) but I did like his RHATO run even though it started out a bit rough around the edges. I also liked his Roy far better than Abnett's take on the character because I could never get over the whole "drunken Roy" nonsense that Abnett started off with in Titans Hunt. THAT alone was enough for me to not even bother continuing with reading that first issue. I honestly don't really think he cared about ANY of the characters in Titans much less Roy.

As for the bolded I really didn't see anything overly outstanding in most of the books being put out during the N52 and I still maintain that the heavy-handed editorial policy of the day hampered almost all of the writer's ability to tell engaging and meaningful stories or to even get decent voices for their characters. Sorry but I just don't feel that the bulk of the books back then were all that great and frankly Lobdell was far from the only one who failed in the quality writing/good story category. I actually thought a lot of writers failed in both. I can count on one hand the number of books back then that I felt were quality ones and most of those were more fringe titles like the original Batwing.

[Assam]

Yep the characters that have escaped Titans are very lucky indeed. I just wish that Nightwing had managed to escape with them. I'd much rather see him on one of those JL teams then remaining stuck in Titans. He really should have been on one of those teams instead if DC has any interest in elevating him.

Out of curiosity, where would you have put him? The main JL is already pretty big and would potentially lead to him playing second fiddle to Batman, he wouldn't fit on Dark unless he was given a magical disco collar, Az got the Odyssey spot because they thought it would be a neat concept to turn the knight into a space knight (and it does sound cool), plus with Cyborg running things, Dick wouldn't even have 'leadership' to offer, and if you extend this to Outsiders, they've already got two, possibly three if Bruce is among their ranks, Bats.

[JasonTodd428]

Out of curiosity, where would you have put him? The main JL is already pretty big and would potentially lead to him playing second fiddle to Batman, he wouldn't fit on Dark unless he was given a magical disco collar, Az got the Odyssey spot because they thought it would be a neat concept to turn the knight into a space knight (and it does sound cool), plus with Cyborg running things, Dick wouldn't even have 'leadership' to offer, and if you extend this to Outsiders, they've already got two, possibly three if Bruce is among their ranks, Bats.

First of all we're still not 100% sure there will be an Outsiders book or if any of the Bat characters involved in the "Outsiders" 'Tec team will even be members of that team if there is a book. That's all up in the air at the moment so I'm not gonna bother counting it as a possible place to put him right now.

I would have put him on the Odyssey team and leave Cyborg in the leadership role because goodness know Vic could use a bit of a push as well. In my mind Dick doesn't have to be the leader to be a respected and vital member of a team so it wouldn't bother me if he wasn't one here. Really I just want to see him treated like the experienced adult hero he is and not like someone who needs to get daddy's permission to even have a team or who needs to be babysat by someone who just shows up out of the blue. Abnett clearly isn't and hasn't been treating him like an adult here and frankly I'm sick of that. I want Nightwing as far away from Abnett and his Titans as possible. If we'd have gotten a new writer with a fresh perspective here I would feel differently but we didn't so I'd rather Dick was out of the Titans for the foreseeable future.

[Assam]

First of all we're still not 100% sure there will be an Outsiders book or if any of the Bat characters involved in the "Outsiders" 'Tec team will even be members of that team if there is a book. That's all up in the air at the moment so I'm not gonna bother counting it as a possible place to put him right now.

I honestly have no idea how you're still skeptical at this point, but you do you.

I would have put him on the Odyssey team and leave Cyborg in the leadership role because goodness know Vic could use a bit of a push as well. In my mind Dick doesn't have to be the leader to be a respected and vital member of a team so it wouldn't bother me if he wasn't one here. Really I just want to see him treated like the experienced adult hero he is and not like someone who needs to get daddy's permission to even have a team or who needs to be babysat by someone who just shows up out of the blue.

That was just a point I was raising. Williamson has said how JPV ended up on the team, that being that they were tossing names around and he just tossed the idea of using him out, going forward from there. It wasn't a matter of choosing one bat over another. And even ignoring my preference toward JPV, I'm glad they did this both because I really like the concept and because it keeps him out of limbo, a position Dick wouldn't be in even if he wasn't in Titans, nor will he ever be in that position.

[JasonTodd428]

I honestly have no idea how you're still skeptical at this point, but you do you.

I'm merely taking issue with treating it as a done deal when its not been announced as such yet. Its still just speculation at this point. Speculation with a lot of support but still speculation.

That was just a point I was raising. Williamson has said how JPV ended up on the team, that being that they were tossing names around and he just tossed the idea of using him out, going forward from there. It wasn't a matter of choosing one bat over another. And even ignoring my preference toward JPV, I'm glad they did this both because I really like the concept and because it keeps him out of limbo, a position Dick wouldn't be in even if he wasn't in Titans, nor will he ever be in that position.

I actually like that JPV is going to be on the team and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with this team since I like everyone else on it too.

All I'm saying is that Nightwing really needs to move beyond the Titans nonsense and he definitely should have been involved with the team. Heck he should have been involved with the event in the first place and not spent his time in stasis during it instead.

[HandofPrometheus]

If there was a Checkmate book I would love to see Dick there. Don't know how it would work but him in Checkmate would be fun.

[Frontier]

If there was a Checkmate book I would love to see Dick there. Don't know how it would work but him in Checkmate would be fun.

That would probably be the Grayson revival fans demanded .

[Assam]

I actually like that JPV is going to be on the team and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with this team since I like everyone else on it too.

We're yet to see the execution, but Odyssey is a rare cape book that has me excited both for the cast and the premise, as usually it's one or the other. JPV and especially Jess are characters I love, Kory is always fun and I'm intrigued by how she'll interact with Jess and while I may not really care about Cyborg, seemingly setting up the main conflict on the team to be an ongoing mind game between him and Darkseid is the kind of thing I love.

That would probably be the Grayson revival fans demanded .

Coming Soon: Checkmate by Dan Abnett

[JasonTodd428]

We're yet to see the execution, but Odyssey is a rare cape book that has me excited both for the cast and the premise, as usually it's one or the other. JPV and especially Jess are characters I love, Kory is always fun and I'm intrigued by how she'll interact with Jess and while I may not really care about Cyborg, seemingly setting up the main conflict on the team to be an ongoing mind game between him and Darkseid is the kind of thing I love.

Yeah, I'm excited by both the team and the premise as well. I'm also happy to see Jess be a part of this team since she's really become a favorite of mine. The whole mind games angle between Cyborg and Darkseid is likewise very appealing to me. I can't wait to see where this goes because honestly I need something new to read now that New Super-man and the Justice League of China is ending. (I'm still gutted about that one.)

Coming Soon: Checkmate by Dan Abnett

Please don't even joke about that.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

Yeah I'd much rather Dick was on the JLO. It just makes sense for me, I'm a little tired of street-level Nightwing. He'd be the underdog in that book, and it'd put a big focus on his being a detective instead of a former acrobat.

I mean at least Titans is going epic now, but it's just so wrong with Abnett still on the book.

[Godlike13]

Titans is going epic?

At this point Dick just getting away from Abnett would be a win for him.

[adrikito]

And how are they friends when Damian kidnapped them and treated Wally like a female dog?

The mistake was put old characters of Dick generation in TT with Damian as leader, the old fans can´t approve this. Even I saw that strange and I prefered Starfire as leader like in the films.

Despite this comic is the chance for many dissapeared characters(old TT members) I think that one new generation is what this comic needed, because Tim generation is not here now..

Put 3 old characters(adding 1 would not create many problems) and the people will say how good were these characters in the past and you will see the same problem than in Percy run.

What happened with Wally West was horrible but.. If you talk about NewWally, He could have caused a great disaster that affected the universe(like barry with flashpoint), Damian fired him for this.

Damian decision of fire him was not one injustice. I saw many people agree with that. He returned few chapters later and is here again in this new TT run.