Titans Together! Teen Titans Appreciation

[Raijin]

sounds like you want to skip the ground work and get straight to the team being a team

Patience is a lost cause for people. Them being a full fledged team will definitely pay off.

[byrd156]

sounds like you want to skip the ground work and get straight to the team being a team

What it sounds like, is I want this show to make that ground work better. How does any of what I said equal "this show sucks because they aren't a team"?

How does crappy CGI, Starfire's character, pointless characters, or characters just existing to do nothing equal "this show sucks because they aren't a team"?

[byrd156]

Patience is a lost cause for people. Them being a full fledged team will definitely pay off.

Where did I say they need to be a team for this show to be good?

[Raijin]

What it sounds like, is I want this show to make that ground work better. How does any of what I said equal "this show sucks because they aren't a team"?

How does crappy CGI, Starfire's character, pointless characters, or characters just existing to do nothing equal "this show sucks because they aren't a team"?

You definitely aren't watching the show.

[byrd156]

You definitely aren't watching the show.

You aren't watching the show.

See I can simply say things too.

[Badou]

DCU has a poll up.
It's pitting Kory and Barbara against each other.

Barbara is currently leading Kory by 5 percent

With all the advantages that Barbara has, it's not a surprise.

I don't know about that. Outside of comics Starfire has had way more opportunity and has been pushed with Dick a lot more. Starfire has had the Teen Titans cartoon, TTGO, the recent DC animated movies, and now the live action Titans TV show too.

It is honestly more surprising that Barbara is leading by that much given how little they actually push Dick and Babs outside of the comics.

[Raijin]

You aren't watching the show.

See I can simply say things too.

Some days I really want to not hold back when it comes to you. But I'm going to be nice.

There's nothing wrong with the ground work. First of all. From the universe that they are building, it all makes sense why they are doing what they are doing. Myself and others have praised the direction they are going in. If you were expecting Wolfman's NTT then that's your fault and rightfully so. Every one of your petty complaints either has been touched on or hasn't yet. It's a show. Not everything is going to happen so quick. The show is not for you? Okay fine. But stop passing your criticisms as facts. Please let this be the last time we have this discussion. Thanks.

[byrd156]

Some days I really want to not hold back when it comes to you. But I'm going to be nice.

There's nothing wrong with the ground work. First of all. From the universe that they are building, it all makes sense why they are doing what they are doing. Myself and others have praised the direction they are going in. If you were expecting Wolfman's NTT then that's your fault and rightfully so. Every one of your petty complaints either has been touched on or hasn't yet. It's a show. Not everything is going to happen so quick. The show is not for you? Okay fine. But stop passing your criticisms as facts. Please let this be the last time we have this discussion. Thanks.

I'm a big boy, I can handle whatever words you want to use.

I'm not expecting or wanting the Wolfman era retread even though that's what this is just in a different style. Why are you always projecting onto me? I personally don't care for the direction, style, tone and various other things that I have gone to detail with. Like the DCEU you can like those movies but there was a large amount of people that took issue with that direction. It doesn't make it wrong, it just means not everyone likes something. The universe they were building made sense there but there were those that it didn't take with. I haven't written off the show, like I said in my posts that you only seem to skim instead of read I said, "This show just doesn't feel like a Titans show to me in the slightest, maybe it will turn around but geez this episode really soured me."

Maybe things will change when I see the full season together. I liked most of episode 2, I stated my grievances and issues with details for discussion in the tv thread if you want read about it over there. I don't just write things off, there is always something to take away whether you like or dislike something. If I don't like something I want to understand why and what specifically doesn't click with me in a story and vice versa. If something isn't getting a reaction out of you positive or negative then what was the point of it?

As for my questions they are all still valid. Asking questions is part of a discussion, you can think they are petty or somehow facts. I only ever state my own opinions which mean pretty much nothing to anyone except myself.

[Konja7]

What it sounds like, is I want this show to make that ground work better. How does any of what I said equal "this show sucks because they aren't a team"?

How does crappy CGI, Starfire's character, pointless characters, or characters just existing to do nothing equal "this show sucks because they aren't a team"?

Well, maybe this show isn't for you.

It seems many people really like Starfire in Titans (even if the costume is terrible). Also, many other things you dislike of Titans seem to be popular or other fans don't have problems with these.

So, these weren't mistakes for them.

[Raijin]

Well, maybe this show isn't for you.

It seems many people really like Starfire in Titans (even if the costume is terrible). Also, many other things you dislike of Titans seem to be popular.

So, these weren't mistakes for them.

Ha! But when I say it I'm wrong. Honestly Startfire is the highlight of this show for me. Yeah sure, her design isn't ideal for me. But I don't care about costumes. When I watch Titans I see subtle parallels between her and her comic book counterpart. But it's done in a way where both versions aren't stepping on each other's toes. I look at this as elseworld story and I'm fine with that. That's not me crapping on the show at all.

[byrd156]

Well, maybe this show isn't for you.

It seems many people really like Starfire in Titans (even if the costume is terrible). Also, many other things you dislike of Titans seem to be popular.

So, these weren't mistakes for them.

I have seen people praise the show and utterly trash the show. You like it, that's cool. I have issues with it but I always give a show it's first season before deciding.

I watch a lot of content, comes with working in the entertainment field, and I have seen a lot of garbage and bad stuff but nothing that I actively dislike or hate. This show is harmless I have issues as a die-hard fan of this team and it's characters. But I have no real expectations for this show but I watch it like it's a Troma product, just some dumb fun to watch.

[Konja7]

I have seen people praise the show and utterly trash the show. You like it, that's cool. I have issues with it but I always give a show it's first season before deciding.

I watch a lot of content, comes with working in the entertainment field, and I have seen a lot of garbage and bad stuff but nothing that I actively dislike or hate. This show is harmless I have issues as a die-hard fan of this team and it's characters. But I have no real expectations for this show but I watch it like it's a Troma product, just some dumb fun to watch.

I understand. I hope you find something more enjoyable in Titans.

I usually do not have so much patience, if something really annoys me in the first episode I see, I do not usually give a second episode to the TV series.

[byrd156]

I understand. I hope you find something more enjoyable in Titans.

I usually do not have so much patience, if something really annoys me in the first episode I see, I do not usually give a second episode to the TV series.

Like I said I liked the second episode the most so far. I'll always stick with my favorite characters and teams to support them even if I don't like the direction. Hell most of DC since the New 52 I have very much despised but I read anyway because I want to support certain characters and creators.

Besides if Titans gets canceled that's a lot of people out of work and that sucks. Plus the show can always improve as time goes on. I have issues now and I will probably have more, don't let that somehow affect your enjoyment. Everyone likes and dislikes different things.

[Rac7d*]

I wonder when the seoncd season will start shooting

[Starrius]

I don't know about that. Outside of comics Starfire has had way more opportunity and has been pushed with Dick a lot more. Starfire has had the Teen Titans cartoon, TTGO, the recent DC animated movies, and now the live action Titans TV show too.

It is honestly more surprising that Barbara is leading by that much given how little they actually push Dick and Babs outside of the comics.

Batman stuff is a lot more popular than Titans stuff.

Batman stuff has a lot more exposure and history.

Barbara being part of the Batfamily like Dick is a big advantage for her.

Barbara has been propped up as Dick's true love at Kory's expense including the use of damaging retcons.

Barbara has been appeared in a lot of comics with Dick.



Considering all that, Kory is doing well in the poll.

Selina,Lois,and Mary Jane dominates by large margins in polls when it comes to Bruce Wayne/Batman, Clark Kent/Superman, Peter Parker/Spider-Man respectively.



The question is not 'Who will win in the poll?'

The question is 'By what margin will Barbara beat Kory in the poll?'


Barbara has been propped up a bit, and it has been at Kory's expense with retcons and washing away Kory's history with Dick.



I think Barbara is more popular than Kory.

She has been in comics a lot longer than Kory, and she has been in a lot more comics than Kory.

Barbara has been with Dick in comic pages a lot more than Kory for well over a decade.

Batman office writers have Dick saying that the only woman that Dick has ever loved is Barbara which strongly contradicts what had been going on between Dick and Kory in the comic pages.



A statue of Dick/Barbara is going to be out.

Dick/Barbara is treated like an iconic couple.


This is a good explanation of what had been done to Kory to prop up Babs

by fearlesslydrifting

tldr: Dick ‘chose’ Babs since most of his writers either are more familiar with that relationship, prefer that relationship, put them together because DC editorial wanted them to, think that Babs is his default love interest or just don’t know much about Dick and Kory and assume that the DickKory relationship is pure lust (which for the record, it isn’t).

This is a fairly complicated reply, mainly because the answer relies on a combination of canon, characterisation and the comics/editing outside (aka in the real world). Also I’m admitting it now that I’m much more biased towards Dick and Kory (The New Teen Titans was the first comic series I fully completed and I prefer their relationship to Dick and Barbara).

Pre-flashpoint Real World: Nightwing and Starfire were originally going to get married. When that plan failed, Nightwing's character was put into limbo for a year or so, with a couple of guest appearances, before he was finally given a mini-series and then his own proper series. Since his botched wedding was a pretty big failure and the New Titansseries had declined in popularity and general writing quality, DC and Dixon basically tried to separate the idea of Nightwing and the Titans. That's why Kory (Starfire) is rarely mentioned in that series, despite the fact that she was his canon girlfriend (and eventual fiancé) for something like five years in canon, and the fact that he was 100% fully in love with her and seemed pretty comfortable with the idea of spending the rest of his life with her. Anyway, Dixon needed to lessen the DickKory relationship, and so he did that through a series of (poor) retcons, rarely mentioning her, or belittling her in order to boost up Babs/whatever other love interest.

The writers wanted to push for the whole 'Dick and Babs were soulmates from the moment they met' and so the result of that was a bunch of retcons, slowly erasing a big portion of the DickKory relationship and also making characters like Bruce and Babs hate Kory/make snide comments about her, despite it being really out of character for them.

Pre-flashpoint Canon: That's why it suddenly felt like he 'fell out of love with Starfire', because Dick went from wanting to marry her and spend the rest of his life with her (although the actual marriage was impulsive, but that's a can of worms for another day) to suddenly declaring that Barbara Gordon had always been 'the one' and was 'above the others' and barely mentioning Kory (and if she was mentioned, it was some sort of belittling comment about their relationship). Dick was retconned as always holding out some sort of hope for Babs to love him, and Kory became ‘slutty alien who got in the way of DickBabs’ :/

Post-flashpoint Real World: Dick and Kory’s history was mentioned, but since they were on different teams and the Titans had been retconned out, their relationship has barely been explored and so I can’t really help you much with that. Their relationship still had fans (mainly due to Robin/Starfire in the animated show) and so DC mentioned Nightwing and Starfire dating, but that was mainly it since most of what Scott Lobdell wrote is currently/has been retconned. Nightwing and Babs are popular, too, and since the pre-flashpoint universe ended with Babs and Dick almost getting married, it makes sense that DC would keep on pushing for Dick and Babs.

Post-flashpoint Canon: Dick and Kory presumably didn’t date that long, and their relationship has been mentioned like four times (with most of them being from Kory’s side of things; Tim Seeley has only mentioned DickKory when he needs something to compare Dick and Shawn with). Dick and Babs connection has been much stronger since they crossed a lot more in the Batfamily books. However Dick and Babs (as far as I’m aware) have romantic tension, but haven’t actually dated before (yet) so he’s presumably ‘chosen’ Babs since his relationship with Kory has currently been written as something that was one-sided and Babs has been seen as his ‘soulmate/ultimate love interest.’
(also if you got this far, props to you! personally I find Dick and Babs too similar in the fact that they both repress their emotions too much, and so I think their relationship wouldn't work out/would suffer as a result of that. Babs always struck me as the kind of person who didn't like needing people emotionally and enjoys her independence, whereas Dick has always been the kind of character who at heart, needs people and a strong emotional connection, and therefore after a while they'd be stuck in a situation where one of them would have to sacrifice their emotional needs to make the relationship work).
Edit: This is so long, yikes. Sorry about that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nightwing/c...over_starfire/



This sums it up


Don't feel you have to like Dick/Kory on anyone else's behalf, but I think it needs to be understood that its not the relationship running its course and the two moving on that sits egregiously with fans--its that Barbara Gordon's romance with Dick was WRITTEN ON TOP of his very serious, very canonical relationship with Kory. It was a series of damaging retcons that began to marginalize Dick's years with the Titans, as well as treat Kory as if she was this 'promiscuous, other woman' in Dick's' life.

It was wrong and felt far too sexist in its delivery since Babs is the good/golden girl of the DCU and visually accepted by Bruce and his universe, and they were juxtapositioning her girl-next-door image against a sexualized depiction of Kory.

Honestly, I don't want Kory back with Dick, but I do feel DC got greedy and treated the idea of the Babs/Dick coupling as more important than the two's individual histories. Barbara slowly got de-aged and Dick's own continuity got altered to suit a past romance that DID NOT happen. The relationship literally became an editorial edict at the cost of treating Koriand'r like dirt.

I believe this is what is being referred to when posters comment that a return to this pairing would "only hold each other back".

Which is why my vote is for romances with new people. I'm all for Dick/Powergirl or Dick/Kate Spencer(Manhunter) and Babs is more than welcome to explore the playing field.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/dick-...627620/?page=2