Titans Together! Teen Titans Appreciation

[Kon93]

Abnett's Donna is a good example of how not to write the character I think. He wants to write her as some Amazon warrior where she runs around with a sword and a shield and yells a lot, and to try and set her apart from Diana he gives her a drinking problem, but it all falls flat. It makes her feel more like a knockoff the more they do it. It is like they don't understand what made Donna a good character and why people liked her in the first place. I don't mind a lasso that much, but the sword and shield are things I find problematic.

What set her apart from Diana was that she grew up an Amazon but she was also normal. She grew up with other kids with vastly different backgrounds, she went to school, she had a career, she got married, and even had a kid. Sure I didn't like who she married or giving her a kid, but they were all experiences that set her apart from Diana as a character. It grounds her in a way Diana can't be while also still maintaining some core principles that you expect from a Wonder Woman character. Like being the heart of the team and having these very strong bonds with its heroes. It is what the Titans show got so right with Donna in her short appearance in that she felt like a normal person who also was this hero that characters like Dick could rely on, and they didn't need to have her dress in some armor or run around in a sword and shield yelling like an Amazon warrior to compete with Diana.

Agree with this,and hopefully someday they get her right,I'm sick of these wonderful characters we have grown to love over years or decades for some be treated like crap

[Killerbee911]

I just wish they would ditch the whole weapon thing for both Wonder Woman and Donna Troy.

Why do they need them?

They're both pretty much invulnerable with super strength. That should be more than enough.

Aside from the magic lasso and bracelets, which are unique and iconic for both of them, anything else just seems as pointless and stupid as Superman wearing armor.

Wonder Woman got by without weapons for years and generally goes straight to fisticuffs more often then not, so I just really don't see what they add at this point (beyond visual consistency with the movie I guess).

So they are many reasons,here is a couple

1. Batman punches stuff,Superman punches stuff, Aquaman Punches stuff, Flash punches stuff and Wonder Woman punches stuff. Visually Justice league is just bunch of people punching to make her distinctive different from others in the action, Aquaman has a Trident for a similar reason. A fight with Aquaman,Superman, and Wonder Woman is three people punching things, With weapons Wonder Woman and Aquaman are visual different and also fight different. Think about when was the last you seen Superman or Flash throw multiple kicks in a fight? If someone on the Justice League or Titans throw a lot kicks they would stand out.

2. Sword (and Shield) gives her a Warrior feel which is a distinct role. Helps to invoke certain thought process two heroes can be viewed as dangerous one can have his hand wrap in boxing cloth which makes you think fighter, one can have on a uniform with M-16 and you think Soldier/Warrior. Superman and Batman give you a fighter vibe while Aquaman and Wonder Woman give you a warrior vibe.

In teams with multiple people who do the same thing you try to create distinct styles of doing things

[Robotman]

So they are many reasons,here is a couple

1. Batman punches stuff,Superman punches stuff, Aquaman Punches stuff, Flash punches stuff and Wonder Woman punches stuff. Visually Justice league is just bunch of people punching to make her distinctive different from others in the action, Aquaman has a Trident for a similar reason. A fight with Aquaman,Superman, and Wonder Woman is three people punching things, With weapons Wonder Woman and Aquaman are visual different and also fight different. Think about when was the last you seen Superman or Flash throw multiple kicks in a fight? If someone on the Justice League or Titans throw a lot kicks they would stand out.

2. Sword (and Shield) gives her a Warrior feel which is a distinct role. Helps to invoke certain thought process two heroes can be viewed as dangerous one can have his hand wrap in boxing cloth which makes you think fighter, one can have on a uniform with M-16 and you think Soldier/Warrior. Superman and Batman give you a fighter vibe while Aquaman and Wonder Woman give you a warrior vibe.

In teams with multiple people who do the same thing you try to create distinct styles of doing things

Totally agreed. It’s for aesthetic purposes. They may not need a sword and shield but the Ancient Greek weaponry adds to the visual stylings of the character. The costume and weapons helps to tell the story of the character by just looking at them.

[kjn]

Totally agreed. It’s for aesthetic purposes. They may not need a sword and shield but the Ancient Greek weaponry adds to the visual stylings of the character. The costume and weapons helps to tell the story of the character by just looking at them.

But a sword and shield (the latter which is quite impractical to carry around) are not only visual stylings. They carry very strong connotations on what the character is and what he or she does. And I'm not sure you want the connotation that Diana or Donna are primarily warriors. Because they're not.

[Killerbee911]

But a sword and shield (the latter which is quite impractical to carry around) are not only visual stylings. They carry very strong connotations on what the character is and what he or she does. And I'm not sure you want the connotation that Diana or Donna are primarily warriors. Because they're not.

What are they then? Literally current Donna is magical golem build to destroy Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman is the best Amazon Warrior. Warrior is the key feature they excel at to be superheroes their personality and philosophy might bring contrast to the thing they are the best at but yeah they are Warriors first. Wonder Woman they are very much trying to invoke the Spartan,Trojan,Amazon ie Greek Warrior type feel with her to make stand out differently from Superman and company.

[kjn]

What are they then? Literally current Donna is magical golem build to destroy Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman is the best Amazon Warrior. Warrior is the key feature they excel at to be superheroes their personality and philosophy might bring contrast to the thing they are the best at but yeah they are Warriors first. Wonder Woman they are very much trying to invoke the Spartan,Trojan,Amazon ie Greek Warrior type feel with her to make stand out differently from Superman and company.

Leaving Donna aside for now (as her current status is a mess), but regarding Diana, you can get different answers depending on who you ask. But here are a few takes.

Gail Simone:

If you need to stop an asteroid, you call Superman. If you need to solve a mystery, you call Batman. But if you need to end a war, you call Wonder Woman.

The Spirit of Truth

ww-charlie-smile.jpg

"No Charlie. Who will sing for us?"

Patty Jenkins:

The thing about Wonder Woman, which is very feminine and definitely different, is that her objective is to bring love and truth to mankind.

Greg Rucka:

One of [Wonder Woman's] powers is love. One of her patron gods is Aphrodite! Aphrodite's portfolio is love! She goes out there with an open hand. She doesn't go into the world with a closed fist. Batman goes into the world with a closed fist. Batman's solution to most problems is, "How hard can I hit it, and where?" Diana's solution to most problems is to say, "I want to understand, come with me." A lasso of truth -- that demands understanding. That is the nature of what truth is. "For me to find truth, I have to understand. For me to understand you is to know you. How do I not know you and then not be able to love you?" These are fundamental things.

Or to get Tynion's take on her in the new JLD #6. Her key contribution is not her fighting prowess but her trust and faith in Detective Chimp, when no-one else did.

[Dred]

So they are many reasons,here is a couple

1. Batman punches stuff,Superman punches stuff, Aquaman Punches stuff, Flash punches stuff and Wonder Woman punches stuff. Visually Justice league is just bunch of people punching to make her distinctive different from others in the action, Aquaman has a Trident for a similar reason. A fight with Aquaman,Superman, and Wonder Woman is three people punching things, With weapons Wonder Woman and Aquaman are visual different and also fight different. Think about when was the last you seen Superman or Flash throw multiple kicks in a fight? If someone on the Justice League or Titans throw a lot kicks they would stand out.

2. Sword (and Shield) gives her a Warrior feel which is a distinct role. Helps to invoke certain thought process two heroes can be viewed as dangerous one can have his hand wrap in boxing cloth which makes you think fighter, one can have on a uniform with M-16 and you think Soldier/Warrior. Superman and Batman give you a fighter vibe while Aquaman and Wonder Woman give you a warrior vibe.

In teams with multiple people who do the same thing you try to create distinct styles of doing things

Wonder Woman always had the Lasso and that that has fallen out of grace as her primary tool of choice in favor of a murder stick is the problem. A sword is not a knife or an axe or a bow and arrow -- it doesn't have a purpose besides causing harm and death to people. A Lasso is nearly the exact opposite as a tool of conflict. It's meant to restrain with little harm, which better embodies the Amazonian ideals. Or it should, at least.

[Rac7d*]

Wonder Woman always had the Lasso and that that has fallen out of grace as her primary tool of choice in favor of a murder stick is the problem. A sword is not a knife or an axe or a bow and arrow -- it doesn't have a purpose besides causing harm and death to people. A Lasso is nearly the exact opposite as a tool of conflict. It's meant to restrain with little harm, which better embodies the Amazonian ideals. Or it should, at least.

she is a warrior a sword and shield should be her staple but the lasso is iconic and she still carries it to this day, So what is the issue with Donna having one she is amazon and she is a warriors
she doesnt need a distinct weapon, Artemis is not well know nor is her giant axe

[SiegePerilous02]

Remember when they were rapists and slavers? Who thought that was a good idea?

They weren't rapists or slavers.

They were man hating black widows and baby killers, though. Which is still all kinds of terrible.

[Dred]

she is a warrior a sword and shield should be her staple but the lasso is iconic and she still carries it to this day, So what is the issue with Donna having one she is amazon and she is a warriors
she doesnt need a distinct weapon, Artemis is not well know nor is her giant axe

Warrior implies someone who goes to war. Someone whose goal in life is to fight. Wonder Woman is an emissary of peace first and foremost. That she is trained to fight and defend herself and her sisters isn't her most defining trait. Just saying "She is a warrior" is dismissive and insulting to the much better character that she is. Warriors are a dime a dozen, Wonder Woman is much better than any warrior. That's WHY her weapon of choice is a peaceable instrument of submission and not something used to kill people. That her entire combat style has to no focus on ways in which she does not use her primary tool correctly is stupid. She can't stab or slice or kill anyone because that undermines her as a hero. Why give her a tool that undermines who she is and that she can't even use correctly?

That's why Marston gave her the lasso. That's why the lasso SHOULD be her primary. Devolving Wonder Woman into Xena has been the problem with her public view for years.

[oasis1313]

What are they then? Literally current Donna is magical golem build to destroy Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman is the best Amazon Warrior. Warrior is the key feature they excel at to be superheroes their personality and philosophy might bring contrast to the thing they are the best at but yeah they are Warriors first. Wonder Woman they are very much trying to invoke the Spartan,Trojan,Amazon ie Greek Warrior type feel with her to make stand out differently from Superman and company.

I'm okay with Donna being a tinkertoy. Anything as long as it keeps her "origins" SIMPLE.

[byrd156]

Wonder Woman always had the Lasso and that that has fallen out of grace as her primary tool of choice in favor of a murder stick is the problem. A sword is not a knife or an axe or a bow and arrow -- it doesn't have a purpose besides causing harm and death to people. A Lasso is nearly the exact opposite as a tool of conflict. It's meant to restrain with little harm, which better embodies the Amazonian ideals. Or it should, at least.

Very well said.

[Killerbee911]

Warrior implies someone who goes to war. Someone whose goal in life is to fight. Wonder Woman is an emissary of peace first and foremost.

Your problem is that you don't understand the role of Warrior/Soldier. You can't get peace without fighting. You can't defend without being able to fight. Your big mistake is thinking that real warriors go looking for a fights.

That's why Marston gave her the lasso.

I pretty sure Marston love of Bondage is why he gave her the lasso.


Anyways on topic I wonder how long Kyle Rayner will be on Titans. This is right type of move for the book I think you need a mix of star power (Nightwing, Kyle Rayner,etc) and smaller names is the best idea

[Agent Z]

Wonder Woman always had the Lasso and that that has fallen out of grace as her primary tool of choice in favor of a murder stick is the problem. A sword is not a knife or an axe or a bow and arrow -- it doesn't have a purpose besides causing harm and death to people. A Lasso is nearly the exact opposite as a tool of conflict. It's meant to restrain with little harm, which better embodies the Amazonian ideals. Or it should, at least.

Swords, axes and arrows are used to cause harm and death as well.

[Agent Z]

she is a warrior a sword and shield should be her staple but the lasso is iconic and she still carries it to this day, So what is the issue with Donna having one she is amazon and she is a warriors
she doesnt need a distinct weapon, Artemis is not well know nor is her giant axe

Artemis doesn't seem to use the lasso much and the axe and her Bow of Ra gets more focus.