Ultimate Spider-Man #4 talk.

[Garlador]

Honestly I'm starting to think the weakest part of the book is anything involving Spider-Man or Superheroics especially compared to the writing of the families, world-building, the Ben/Jonah stuff, or the character interaction. Especially when Spider-Man altogether hasn't done that much in four issues other than fight two villains (and only one he barely beat).

I wouldn't say it's wholly unique Gwen just because it feels like they're fusing her and Liz together, but this is Gwen Stacy so it's not surprising .

I can see the powder keg being lit, and so far the Spider-Man and Peter Parker parts of his life have been kept at arm's length from each other. I very much expect that to change - especially after his conversation with Harry - and the Spider-Man heroics will begin to pour over the dam he's built up to keep his family secure. It's definitely coming, and I respect Hickman for biding his time and showing the dam starting to crack. It's tense.

[CaptainUniverse]

This issue was so good. Hickman is killing it! spoilers:

I am a little worried for Harry's future since he said...you know...that one iconic phrase. Also, I would like to see some of MJ's day-to-day. I am curious to know what being a retainer for Damage Control entails. Especially considering the fact that it is actually a secret holding facility for superhuman corpses and costumes.

end of spoilers

[stillanerd]

I think he either bites it to cement how serious this is for Peter and put him the role as the guy who says the line and dies...or he starts going overboard and the fact that he's the one who used the line on Peter becomes ironic and Peter is the one who has to really embody the ideal.

I'm definitely leaning towards the latter, for sure. Because that the kind of textbook dramatic irony that a writer of Hickman's caliber would go for. After all, it's pretty clear that the subtext behind entire dinner conversation is that not only were Harry and Gwen feeling Peter and MJ out, but that, despite being one of the "good guys," there's still something pretty shady about Harry (and this version of Gwen) that MJ was able to pick up on. Hence her agreeing with Peter that it was "Scary" and that it was "equal parts too personal and too intense."

[Hulkout42]

The art was not my cup of tea i will say in comparison to the previous issues.

That said i liked the dialogue happening here, both between the two couples, Peter and Harry (did not see Harry dropping that iconic phrase!), Ben and his grandson chat...and honestly that brief moment with MJ and Peter at the end? Cheff's kiss IMO! I still wish we got this in the main series but i am thankful at least we are getting good Spidey story telling here.

[Frontier]

I can see the powder keg being lit, and so far the Spider-Man and Peter Parker parts of his life have been kept at arm's length from each other. I very much expect that to change - especially after his conversation with Harry - and the Spider-Man heroics will begin to pour over the dam he's built up to keep his family secure. It's definitely coming, and I respect Hickman for biding his time and showing the dam starting to crack. It's tense.

Well, they are jumping to a Boss Battle against Kingpin so that will probably change a lot...not sure if it improves my pacing issues.

I'm definitely leaning towards the latter, for sure. Because that the kind of textbook dramatic irony that a writer of Hickman's caliber would go for. After all, it's pretty clear that the subtext behind entire dinner conversation is that not only were Harry and Gwen feeling Peter and MJ out, but that, despite being one of the "good guys," there's still something pretty shady about Harry (and this version of Gwen) that MJ was able to pick up on. Hence her agreeing with Peter that it was "Scary" and that it was "equal parts too personal and too intense."

Also I don't think Peter will take finding out about Harry's private prison well...or how his Goblin can come across like a terrorist at times.

Gwen does come off like she could pull off a switch from polite and idealistic businesswoman to merciless and hostile CEO.

[Tendrin]

Easily the best single issue I've read in quite some time.

[Hurricane Billy]

Easily the best single issue I've read in quite some time.

Couldn't agree more. Hickman is on a roll with this book!

As for Harry and Gwen...

spoilers:

Conflict and tragedy definitely seems likely to eventually happen between Peter and Harry down the line. That said, it struck me while reading the issue over again that this Harry seems to be something of a revolutionary. A far more intense one than what Peter wants to do, at that. And typically history and stories tend to end with those sorts of revolutionaries either dying before the fruits of their labor are achieved or die shortly afterwards due to having crossed so many lines along the way to accomplish that revolution. I think that's absolutely on the plate here for Harry. He and Peter are going to eventually come to blows over how to "save the world" and likely break off, resulting in the Goblin becoming either an anti-hero or an anti-villain who continues to be at odds with Peter throughout the book, until at some point Harry will go out a martyr to his cause and the responsibility of saving the world will fall more definitively onto Peter's lap as Spider-Man.

end of spoilers

[Blunt Guy]

The art was not my cup of tea i will say in comparison to the previous issues.

That said i liked the dialogue happening here, both between the two couples, Peter and Harry (did not see Harry dropping that iconic phrase!), Ben and his grandson chat...and honestly that brief moment with MJ and Peter at the end? Cheff's kiss IMO! I still wish we got this in the main series but i am thankful at least we are getting good Spidey story telling here.

Why can't people just accept this as its own thing? Peter and MJ are together, which seems to be the biggest issue among lapsed readers, so Marvel has heard and responded. The only way to ensure this story progresses is to buy it every month regardless of what is happening in ASM. That guy will continue being run through a grinder and reset for new generations of readers to discover. This is the second time Marvel has given readers a title with an intact marriage. People were praising Renew Your Vows at the beginning, but sales declined after the new wore off. The main excuses I heard were 1) the stories got worse as it progressed 2) didn't like the family setup, or 3) lost interest in it, but the truth is that readers don't want to accept alternate worlds when the "real" Spidey title exists (even though they quit reading long ago or hate it). Spidey readers are the worst about invalidating stories that don't take place in the main universe, which many of them complain about for years yet still read. Try to enjoy this title as if ASM doesn't exist, because it is independent of that continuity. It's not being used to test ideas for ASM, and people need to quit expecting events here to impact it. Marvel threw fans a bone, so try to enjoy it and support it every month regardless of what is happening at ASM. Otherwise it will be gone.

[Kevinroc]

There's a reality where Norman finally gets the Harry he's always wanted.

spoilers:

This Harry doesn't have any children.

end of spoilers

Norman would be very conflicted.

[SplinteringHeart]

It's stupid that Peter has not told MJ he's "taken the bite", no reason for it, other than to make him look foolish...in issue one he had a proper conversation with MJ about whether he should do it, he shared the confidence of his thoughts about it, and yet now he hasn't told her, what, for "her protection" (?)...and yet his little 5(?) year old daughter is ok to know...that's nonsense..

MJ will know of course anyway, but that's not the point..the idea that he should be withholding such info from his darling wife as opposed to that he would tell her of all people straight away..is nonsense.

[Garlador]

Why can't people just accept this as its own thing? Peter and MJ are together, which seems to be the biggest issue among lapsed readers, so Marvel has heard and responded. The only way to ensure this story progresses is to buy it every month regardless of what is happening in ASM. That guy will continue being run through a grinder and reset for new generations of readers to discover. This is the second time Marvel has given readers a title with an intact marriage. People were praising Renew Your Vows at the beginning, but sales declined after the new wore off. The main excuses I heard were 1) the stories got worse as it progressed 2) didn't like the family setup, or 3) lost interest in it, but the truth is that readers don't want to accept alternate worlds when the "real" Spidey title exists (even though they quit reading long ago or hate it). Spidey readers are the worst about invalidating stories that don't take place in the main universe, which many of them complain about for years yet still read. Try to enjoy this title as if ASM doesn't exist, because it is independent of that continuity. It's not being used to test ideas for ASM, and people need to quit expecting events here to impact it. Marvel threw fans a bone, so try to enjoy it and support it every month regardless of what is happening at ASM. Otherwise it will be gone.

I'm going to be blunt here, Blunt Guy.

I do enjoy USM on its own merits. Immensely.

However, the questionable quality of the mainstream 616 title is hard, if not impossible, for many fans to ignore, and it's difficult not to compare them, especially as they release concurrently or even on the exact same day. I'm as happy with USM as I am disappointed with ASM, which is a damning way of saying that it's the happiest I've been with an on-going Spider-Man title in nearly 16 years.

I would be lying if I said that part of the reason I enjoy USM isn't because it's literally doing exactly what I and many others have asked the 616 title to do that that specific office has refuted and even claimed wasn't feasible or possible. A reader last year wrote in asking for a married Peter to be restored and was told that a married Peter wasn't supported by their "metrics". I have read extensive interviews with the Spider-Man offices over the last 16 years making bold and outlandish claims that marriage made Spider-Man unrelatable, that it made Mary Jane a "soulless husk", that Peter even BEING with Mary Jane was "anti-Marvel", etc. etc.

I (and many others, including other talent at Marvel themselves) have disagreed with the office's stance for many, many years. Ultimate Spider-Man, thus far, is doing much of what readers asked for ages ago - and is succeeding - despite so much documented history from editorial claiming this couldn't or shouldn't be the case.

Now, it's still a young book, but the retention with USM is proving strong, the reception universally positive, and the excitement for what the book is doing - and the status quo it's doing it in - should be a watershed moment for the company. Even Dan Slott had mentioned that the original USM shook up the whole office and spurred a pivot in how they wanted Peter to be portrayed, as well as suggesting to us here that if we genuinely want the 616 book to change directly we need to support a pro-marriage AU book in greater numbers than the 616 title (which so far we're doing). Nearly two decades later, consumers are voting with their wallets that they want a new pivot.

As much as I have been loving USM (which is a lot), I'm still allowed to levy my criticism at 616 and its poor handling of its current run. I'd be criticizing ASM without USM there to boost my spirits, but I make no bones that part of the reasons USM is succeeding with me and others is because it's doing things we once expected of 616 and I've heard several readers mention that, despite this being a new universe, Peter and MJ feel more "familiar" than they have in years compared to their alienating 616 counterparts currently. I see and read this and it resonates with me in a way the comic used to, with a human connection that I genuinely relate to.




And I fully agree. I see nothing wrong with directly comparing the strengths of USM to the failings of 616, particularly because I once expected better of 616 and still advocate for it.

[Coop]

I've bought at a minimum 4 copies of every issue of Ultimate Spider-Man and I'll continue to as long as the book is awesome.

I will also continue to want better from ASM and for me part of being better is undoing OMD. If that doesn't happen, I will continue to just buy USM.

If Marvel didn't expect a portion of the audience to read this and become MORE passionate about getting the marriage back in 616, that's kinda silly. Not saying they NEED to act on anything, they are a business, they only need and will do things that make them money. And ASM is making them money.

But, speaking for myself here, seeing Peter and MJ in this book absolutely reinforces my opinion that OMD was a mistake and that anything added by a single Peter Parker, frankly, doesn't even slightly compare to what I feel even the few scenes of seeing Peter and MJ together adds to this book.

Shin speaking for myself, every "relationship" Peter and MJ have had all the drama that came from them, the characters, everything about it doesn't have a fraction of the resonance the last two pages of this last issue of USM had.

[Frontier]

There's a reality where Norman finally gets the Harry he's always wanted.

spoilers:

This Harry doesn't have any children.

end of spoilers

Norman would be very conflicted.

Nah, Norman would want Harry to have a seat at the table not try to bring it down unless the table refused to have an Obsorn onboard.

That's assuming Ultimate Norman was like 616 Norman.