Moira or Beast.....who got character assassinated the worst in the Krakoa era?

[Galen Nycroft]

Moira was fatality'd the most. Beast has done morally questionable things in the past, also we have Dark Beast as a reminder of what he could become. Moira has never been anything but an ally, a friend, and even a surrogate mother to certain characters (I am so stunned they never brought Rahne/Wolfsbane into the storyline in any capacity throughout the Krakoan Era).

Nothing about what Backwoods Ben Percy did to the character makes any sense, even today as Kieron Gillen tries to clean it up.

[DragonsChi]

I will always have a soft spot for Beast and what has been done with his characterization in recent times is beyond embarrassing.

However, very little will compare to how Moira was minding her own business and out of no where she became some crazy zealot with low morals due to poor writing.

[whitecrown]

I'd say Moira because Beast is a popular and iconic X-Man who has a long history that will ultimately protect his reputation. Especially with appearances in other X-Men media like the movies and '97.

Moira has never had much of a presence outside of the X-Men comics and this was the biggest thing she's been involved with to date, which entirely trashed her reputation. It'll be harder for her to overcome this stigma now.

[whitecrown]

Moira was fatality'd the most. Beast has done morally questionable things in the past, also we have Dark Beast as a reminder of what he could become. Moira has never been anything but an ally, a friend, and even a surrogate mother to certain characters (I am so stunned they never brought Rahne/Wolfsbane into the storyline in any capacity throughout the Krakoan Era).

I'm not, I'd have been more surprised if they had acknowledged it because the Krakoa era doesn't care about personal relationships like this to humanize the X-Men. It's all about putting the characters through the plot. Same reason why Mystique and Rogue have had no contact.

[Havok83]

Moira was fatality'd the most. Beast has done morally questionable things in the past, also we have Dark Beast as a reminder of what he could become. Moira has never been anything but an ally, a friend, and even a surrogate mother to certain characters (I am so stunned they never brought Rahne/Wolfsbane into the storyline in any capacity throughout the Krakoan Era).

Nothing about what Backwoods Ben Percy did to the character makes any sense, even today as Kieron Gillen tries to clean it up.

I know. Even Banshee got skinned alive

[NewMutant]

It's hard to say. The characters are drifting more and more into a franchised type and less development. Beast going mad/evil scientist isn't my favorite direction (and its been done before... Dark Beast/Sublime Beast/Timeline Puppet master) but it lies within the character. Moira has just been a total assassination's from the start and kept digging itself into a bigger hole. Suddenly a mutant, then depower to human with THIRST for revenge, to giving her humanity to become a machine for the win, to then wanting world domination. I miss the human alley who was willing to isolate herself to study the legacy virus.

Xavier is being traitorous now but it has a bit of purpose and obvious potential of resurrections (phoenix or five). Whereas Cyclops murdering Xavier in AvX still baffles me how ok people

[berserkerclaw]

MORIA. What Hickman did foes against anything we know of her charater. When Moria died in X-Men #108 charles was in her head if they knew about her lives and Krakoa to 'fake her death they hid it well. This moris by Hickman is something else. Moria was never a mutant.

[Darth_Caedus]

Everything that Hackman did goes against 60 years of publication history.

[Mungho]

I'd say Moira because Beast is a popular and iconic X-Man who has a long history that will ultimately protect his reputation. Especially with appearances in other X-Men media like the movies and '97.

I hope you're right. After an uptick in appreciating for Beast the last few weeks around the internet, I'm now suddenly seeing a downturn. People saying 'they just expect us to forget everything he did' as well as people saying they hope he's treated extremely poorly by the rest of the team in July's new X-Men and constantly reminded 'what a piece of **** he is'.

Did Moira consistently appear in one of the monthly titles to do evil stuff? I only read a few of the books in the Krakoan age, but Beast had something like 80+ issues(counting both X-Force and a good chunk of Wolverine) to do evil.

I think he had it worst just because he had more history then her to ruin. Percy implied Beast has been evil from the beginning, which is very strange when he switched tracks and brought an old version of him to replace the one he ruined.

[Havok83]

I hope you're right. After an uptick in appreciating for Beast the last few weeks around the internet, I'm now suddenly seeing a downturn. People saying 'they just expect us to forget everything he did' as well as people saying they hope he's treated extremely poorly by the rest of the team in July's new X-Men and constantly reminded 'what a piece of **** he is'.

Did Moira consistently appear in one of the monthly titles to do evil stuff? I only read a few of the books in the Krakoan age, but Beast had something like 80+ issues(counting both X-Force and a good chunk of Wolverine) to do evil.

I think he had it worst just because he had more history then her to ruin. Percy implied Beast has been evil from the beginning, which is very strange when he switched tracks and brought an old version of him to replace the one he ruined.

Moira was largely ignored after HoX until Hickman's Inferno. After he left, ironically Percy destroyed her and made her into psychotic lunatic we see today in his X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine mini. Wow it really just hit me that he was responsible for both of these hot messes. Moira wasnt in an ongoing but she was seen regularly enough. Duggan used her for sure. Not sure which other writers/books did.

ETA. Of course Gillen used her in Immortal and obviously his minis now

[cranger]

Moira was largely ignored after HoX until Hickman's Inferno. After he left, ironically Percy destroyed her and made her into psychotic lunatic we see today in his X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine mini. Wow it really just hit me that was was responsible for both of these hot messes. Moira wasnt in an ongoing but she was seen regularly enough. Duggan used her for sure. Not sure which other writers/books did.

My impression of the couple of times Gillen has written her is that she is portrayed more of a pariah ultimately trying to survive. Basically a cockroach, but still with some room for sympathy at least. Although Percy making it canon that Moira killed every last mutant other than Wolverine in life 10B.1 is always going to be on the record.

[NewMutant]

Moira was largely ignored after HoX until Hickman's Inferno. After he left, ironically Percy destroyed her and made her into psychotic lunatic we see today in his X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine mini. Wow it really just hit me that he was responsible for both of these hot messes. Moira wasnt in an ongoing but she was seen regularly enough. Duggan used her for sure. Not sure which other writers/books did.

ETA. Of course Gillen used her in Immortal and obviously his minis now

X Deaths & Lives of Wolverine was one of the worst storylines. Hickman set Moira up to be human again and potentially work her way back as an ally but Percy went in and turned into a vengeful robot woman.

[whitecrown]

I hope you're right. After an uptick in appreciating for Beast the last few weeks around the internet, I'm now suddenly seeing a downturn. People saying 'they just expect us to forget everything he did' as well as people saying they hope he's treated extremely poorly by the rest of the team in July's new X-Men and constantly reminded 'what a piece of **** he is'.

Did Moira consistently appear in one of the monthly titles to do evil stuff? I only read a few of the books in the Krakoan age, but Beast had something like 80+ issues(counting both X-Force and a good chunk of Wolverine) to do evil.

I think he had it worst just because he had more history then her to ruin. Percy implied Beast has been evil from the beginning, which is very strange when he switched tracks and brought an old version of him to replace the one he ruined.

That's a shame but doesn't surprise me that he's being treated this way. This is why I'd be a proponent for a retcon that this Hank was always another AU version like another Dark Beast or brainwashed to absolve him. Seeing the UXM variant covers though make me wish that Hank was a part of that team instead.

Wow, I heard awful things about Percy but it's a new low that he implied Hank has always been evil. I hope that gets completely ignored by future writers. Another reason we need a retcon pronto.

[Gray Lensman]

Beast. Moria fades in and out of relevance, but she still has the number 2 spot. Xavier and Karima are just going through a very familiar character arc, so I can't even call it character assassination where they are concerned. Hank, however, is a perennial mainstay of the roster, only failing to reliably appear in an X-Comic when he is on the Avengers instead, and while he has been sliding into darkness, he hadn't yet French kisses it and cannonballed into the villain end of the pool like Percy had him do.

[wlfking]

Moira was fatality'd the most. Beast has done morally questionable things in the past, also we have Dark Beast as a reminder of what he could become. Moira has never been anything but an ally, a friend, and even a surrogate mother to certain characters (I am so stunned they never brought Rahne/Wolfsbane into the storyline in any capacity throughout the Krakoan Era).

Nothing about what Backwoods Ben Percy did to the character makes any sense, even today as Kieron Gillen tries to clean it up.

An alt universe/timeline version of Rahne was in the same with two building as two Moiras in issues 3 and 4 of Dead X-men but didn't get to exchange a single world with either of them. I was bummed.