How does Amazing Spider-Man reclaim its mojo?

[Kevinroc]

It's no secret that Ultimate Spider-Man is a massive hit. Currently it is not uncommon to see each issue getting multiple printings. People, for the most part, are loving the title. They gave fans what they have said they wanted for years and, more importantly, fans showed up to buy it in droves.

So what happens to Amazing Spider-Man? It still sells well, but it's not the runaway hit that Ultimate is. Its reputation among fans might be at its lowest in its history. Characters spun off from its current direction are struggling to make traction.

So I ask what can be done for Amazing Spider-Man to regain its mojo? Can anything be done? Does anything need to be done? Or does Marvel Editorial's iron grip on the title mean its impossible for it to ever truly regain its mojo?

[Mercwmouth12]

It's no secret that Ultimate Spider-Man is a massive hit. Currently it is not uncommon to see each issue getting multiple printings. People, for the most part, are loving the title. They gave fans what they have said they wanted for years and, more importantly, fans showed up to buy it in droves.

So what happens to Amazing Spider-Man? It still sells well, but it's not the runaway hit that Ultimate is. Its reputation among fans might be at its lowest in its history. Characters spun off from its current direction are struggling to make traction.

So I ask what can be done for Amazing Spider-Man to regain its mojo? Can anything be done? Does anything need to be done? Or does Marvel Editorial's iron grip on the title mean its impossible for it to ever truly regain its mojo?

It's better to wait til USM ends and then ask these questions. ASM has no incentive to do anything remotely close to what USM is doing and can ask different as it's editors want it to be

[Vordan]

Does it need to? It’s in the top 10 of the month every month. Seems like Spidey fans can’t get enough of the Amazing Paul . Marvel is in the perfect situation right now, they get the sales and goodwill of Peter/MJ in USM, and they get the single Peter they want in ASM. I don’t see any reason to think anything will change, and Breevort has said as much in his newsletter.

For my money I expect we will get another loyal company man taking over the book after Wells. My guess is Gerry Duggan - he’s fine, no one hates him and at worst his work is merely boring. He’s taking the axe to Krakoa to get everything where Breevort needs it, in exchange for being a good soldier I could see him getting ASM as a “reward”. Paul will probably get killed/exiled either at the end of Wells run or at the start of whoever comes next as a way to boost sales, but Peter and MJ will remain apart.

[Kevinroc]

Does it need to? It’s in the top 10 of the month every month. Seems like Spidey fans can’t get enough of the Amazing Paul . Marvel is in the perfect situation right now, they get the sales and goodwill of Peter/MJ in USM, and they get the single Peter they want in ASM. I don’t see any reason to think anything will change, and Breevort has said as much in his newsletter.

For my money I expect we will get another loyal company man taking over the book after Wells. My guess is Gerry Duggan - he’s fine, no one hates him and at worst his work is merely boring. He’s taking the axe to Krakoa to get everything where Breevort needs it, in exchange for being a good soldier I could see him getting ASM as a “reward”. Paul will probably get killed/exiled either at the end of Wells run or at the start of whoever comes next as a way to boost sales, but Peter and MJ will remain apart.

Even if Peter and MJ reconcile at the end of this run/beginning of the next run, Marvel hasn't given any reason why readers should care when they can split them up again at a moment's notice.

But I wonder how they plan on getting people hyped up for ASM. Because the title has clearly fallen from where it began. The question is does that even matter?

[Coop]

Does it need to? It’s in the top 10 of the month every month. Seems like Spidey fans can’t get enough of the Amazing Paul . Marvel is in the perfect situation right now, they get the sales and goodwill of Peter/MJ in USM, and they get the single Peter they want in ASM. I don’t see any reason to think anything will change, and Breevort has said as much in his newsletter.

For my money I expect we will get another loyal company man taking over the book after Wells. My guess is Gerry Duggan - he’s fine, no one hates him and at worst his work is merely boring. He’s taking the axe to Krakoa to get everything where Breevort needs it, in exchange for being a good soldier I could see him getting ASM as a “reward”. Paul will probably get killed/exiled either at the end of Wells run or at the start of whoever comes next as a way to boost sales, but Peter and MJ will remain apart.

This is unfortunately the truth. Comics don't exist to be good. They don't exist to generate positive discussion online. They don't exist to make anyone happy. They exist to make money. With ASM making money, why would the decision makers be interested in a change?

Sure, you could argue that USM could be viewed of evidence of them leaving money on the table. But do Marvel's business analytis indicate they need to do anything? If they marriage is the draw for a large portion of the audience, they have that with USM. Would bringing it back in ASM dilute a major selling point of USM? Would it lose the readers who don't want the marriage back?

Why rock the boat when the tide is rising. Nothing changes on ASM until the sales decline.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

It needs 4 things that all go together IMO.

1. Undo OMD - The obvious one. Let Peter and his world grow instead of being stuck to the 70s status quo. Also, you kinda need to undo OMD at this point to re-establish consumer confidence. If this was the Slott or Spencer era, you could get away with putting Peter and MJ back together without marrying them. After the disaster that is Wells' run, I don't think just having Peter and MJ together would make people happy.

2. New Blood - Both the writers and editors. You can still keep old talent like JMD on satellite books and minis, but ASM should be given to new people that bring new perspectives (like Hickman before Ultimate).

3. Make Spidey's world "the world outside your window" again! Hickman's book is about a disenfranchised Millennial in a world of income inequality. JMS' book was all about post-Columbine and post-9/11 America. ITSV/ATSV aren't that political, but they connect with people because (1) it actually looks like New York and (2) Miles and Gwen actually feel like real Gen-Z people. Point is, the book was always at its best when it felt like "the world outside your window". It's the tagline of the company, FFS! So whatever ASM does after Wells, make it connect with real people and real problems again. Drop the high concept crap. No more CEO Spidey, or Wayeb, or Peter working at Horizon, etc. There's lots of ways you can do this, so please for the love of God, make people open the book and go "This feels like a real guy in 2024".

Some fans might struggle with this: 4. Drop all expectations of what a married Spider-Man with kids would look like. Along with the being "the world outside your window", ASM's other strength was that it always felt different and fresh from other stuff. Stan said he wanted a character who "breaks all the rules"... and that's kinda what Spidey was before OMD. Teen Spidey was nothing like the teen sidekicks at the time. Married Peter and MJ were nothing like the couples in sitcoms. So don't expect a new married Spider-Man or Dad Pete to be like other stuff, or even like stuff from AU's. Question every predictable trope you want to use. Consider that some of the tropes fans have been wanting for years are now dated, like the idea that it's mandatory for a parent figure to die for someone to grow up (which a lot of us insist should happen to Aunt May). Superhero stuff that's actually relevant and popular right now (like ATSV and My Hero Academia) are pushing back against "classic" tropes like that. That's just one example. I don't want to go on a tangent about what they should/shouldn't do with each character. Point is, ASM needs to get back to pushing boundaries, and the only way it can do that is if the next writer questions tropes the way pre-OMD writers did.

Also, this one isn't tied to the main four, but it's still pretty important...

5. Address the fact there are now multiple Spider-People. I mean actually address it. What's Peter's opinion on so many people taking on his mantle? How does Jameson feel? How about Spider-Man's villains? Because Peter and his supporting cast have been frozen in amber since OMD, we never properly got into their head to learn how they feel about Miles, Spider-Gwen, etc. No more. The existence of multiple Spider-People in the MU should be like Krakoa. It should be a "new chapter" in Spidey's history, like when he graduated high school, lost Gwen, got married, etc. They don't all have to form a team or live together but the attitude of the characters in the book can't just be "Yeah there's another Spider-Man and we team up sometimes". Drop that. Also drop any old Spider-Man tropes that don't work with Miles being around. The whole "What if I'm doing more harm than good as Spider-Man" thing that 60s-70s comics liked to do doesn't work anymore when there's literally a younger gen inspired by you.

[Garlador]

Does it need to? It’s in the top 10 of the month every month. Seems like Spidey fans can’t get enough of the Amazing Paul . Marvel is in the perfect situation right now, they get the sales and goodwill of Peter/MJ in USM, and they get the single Peter they want in ASM. I don’t see any reason to think anything will change, and Breevort has said as much in his newsletter.

Someone else has already mentioned that USM has been showing that many were mistaken in thinking ASM was at its sales ceiling, when it likely is at a sales floor. It's selling, but rarely have I seen a non-616 Spider-Man book selling at over a 2:1 ratio to USM, if the charts are to be believed. Something can sell, but knowing you're leaving a substantial amount of money on the table this whole time due to a misguided mandate is, well, bad business. That's hardly saying they're struggling, but 16 years later and the criticism of ASM are growing louder every year, not quieter. I've seen more negative press regard ASM in the past year than I have the prior 16 years combined, including resurgent complaints about how disliked One More Day is, how tired readers are of recycling old stories, how there's been basically no growth or progress for Peter or his cast since the mandates prevent anything from moving forward permanently ever again, etc.

So maybe ASM will just exist as a "zombie Simpsons" franchise, having had such large numbers of fans at one point that losing even 50% of them still makes it a top 10 book for decades to come.

But as readers and consumers, yeah, I'm a strong advocate we should demand better and ask for better. Comic issues are more expensive than ever, and ASM is one of the ones asking more dollars than most other books, and I don't believe it's "worth it". That's up to every reader to determine for themselves, but, again, I've never seen a run as criticized as recent years where decades of frustrations are reaching a boiling point.

Let's just say it was loud enough I was compelled to organize a campaign to petition for improvement after asking around. The response I received exploded my inbox and was overwhelming. Nearly a half-million people on Twitter just engaged with a post "celebrating" the moment MJ and Paul's fake kids got erased, which is the most positive and excited response I've seen for this whole mess.

So, back to the question... how does ASM get its groove back?

This is going to sound so condescending, but... there's decades of well-regarded, well-received runs and acclaimed authors with dozens of interviews saying exactly what made characters like Peter and Mary Jane click with readers. Many of them are a phone call away. Many of them even would like to write those kind of stories again, but aren't allowed because it's against what editorial wants. The last guy who wrote a run we have been told advocated for removing One More Day from the equation, and I think that's a cry is only going to get louder. It's an albatross around the whole book. It's the "Infinity War Snap" without the Endgame portal scene. It's Empire Strikes Back without Return of the Jedi. It's Frodo telling Samwise to go home without Sam returning to carry his friend up the mountain.

And it's alienated thousands upon thousands of readers who honestly just want to love their favorite hero again without the asterisks that he sold out his marriage and future child to the devil, no lessons were learned, and as a result he has zero future with anyone because, as even Dan Slott stated, it makes writing Mary Jane boring knowing she can't be anything more than a pitstop between being single and miserable. It's a dead end. We're there. We've been there for 16+ years.

So, marriage or not, Spidey Editorial needs to get out of their own way and stop being so goshdarn afraid of letting Peter evolve and grow into something new and different and mature. I don't want the Spider-Man of my youth, like they so often say they wanted the Spider-Man of their youth back (and I'd argue he isn't that and never can be again). I want a Spider-Man that's the character of my youth evolving FORWARD, built on the foundations of the decades of stories that only comics can tell.

Spider-Man comics used to be the very best at this, ahead of the curve and ahead of the game. Now they're the most stagnant, frightened, skittish book on the market regarding growth and maturity. They shouldn't be.

And I'll again refer to Tom DeFalco on the matter:

"Tom Brevoort recently said that the Spider-Man series is all about youth. And he’s the editor, so he gets to call the shots. Now, when I was the editor of Spider-Man, I thought the series was all about responsibility… So I think that if you’re playing that the series is about responsibility, that allows you to have him get married, ultimately allows you to have him have a baby, because the more responsibilities you pile on the character, his life and the series become more interesting.”

[Vegan]

Loosen the reigns to where actual A-list talent want to be on the book instead of on alt-universe titles.
Put those A-listers on the book. Then, and this is crucial, stay the hell out of their way and let them cook

[Kevinroc]

This is basically how Marvel thinks fans will react to the next ASM run.



The question now is will they?

spoilers:

Yes. Yes, they will.

end of spoilers

[Huntsman Spider]

It needs 4 things that all go together IMO.

1. Undo OMD - The obvious one. Let Peter and his world grow instead of being stuck to the 70s status quo. Also, you kinda need to undo OMD at this point to re-establish consumer confidence. If this was the Slott or Spencer era, you could get away with putting Peter and MJ back together without marrying them. After the disaster that is Wells' run, I don't think just having Peter and MJ together would make people happy.

2. New Blood - Both the writers and editors. You can still keep old talent like JMD on satellite books and minis, but ASM should be given to new people that bring new perspectives (like Hickman before Ultimate).

3. Make Spidey's world "the world outside your window" again! Hickman's book is about a disenfranchise Millennial in a world of income inequality. JMS' book was all about post-Columbine and post-9/11 America. ITSV/ATSV aren't that political, but they connect with people because (1) it actually looks like New York and (2) Miles and Gwen actually feel like real Gen-Z people. Point is, the book was always at its best when it felt like "the world outside your window". It's the tagline of the company, FFS! So whatever ASM does after Wells, make it connect with real people and real problems again. Drop the high concept crap. No more CEO Spidey, or Wayeb, or Peter working at Horizon, etc. There's lots of ways you can do it, so please for the love of God, make people open the book and go "This feels like a real guy in 2024".

Some fans might struggle with this: 4. Drop all expectations of what a married Spider-Man with kids would look like. Along with the being "the world outside your window", ASM's other strength was that it always felt different and fresh from other stuff. Stan said he wanted a character who "breaks all the rules"... and that's kinda what Spidey was before OMD. Teen Spidey was nothing like the teen sidekicks at the time. Married Peter and MJ were nothing like the couples in sitcoms. So don't expect a new married Spider-Man or Dad Pete to be like other stuff, or even like stuff from AU's. Question every predictable trope you want to use. Consider that some of the tropes fans have been wanting for years are now dated, like the idea that it's mandatory for a parent figure to die for someone to grow up (which a lot of us insist should happen to Aunt May). Superhero stuff that's actually relevant and popular right now (like ATSV and My Hero Academia) are pushing back against "classic" tropes like that. That's just one example. I don't want to go on a tangent about what they should/shouldn't do with each character. Point is, ASM needs to get back to pushing boundaries, and the only way it can do that is if the next writer questions tropes the way pre-OMD writers did.

Also, this one isn't tied to the main four, but it's still pretty important...

5. Address the fact there are now multiple Spider-People. I mean actually address it. What's Peter's opinion on so many people taking on his mantle? How does Jameson feel? How about Spider-Man's villains? Because Peter and his supporting cast have been frozen in amber since OMD, we never properly got into their head to learn how they feel about Miles, Spider-Gwen, etc. No more. The existence of multiple Spider-People in the MU should be like Krakoa. It should be a "new chapter" in Spidey's history, like when he graduated high school, lost Gwen, got married, etc. They don't all have to form a team or live together but the attitude of the characters in the book can't just be "Yeah there's another Spider-Man and we team up sometimes". Drop that. Also drop any old Spider-Man tropes that don't work with Miles being around. The whole "What if I'm doing more harm than good as Spider-Man" thing that 60-70s comics liked to do doesn't work anymore when there's literally a younger gen inspired by you.

Yeah, those all sound good, but especially the last one. Beyond simply Peter and Mary Jane back together, married, and perhaps starting to raise a family of their own, there is definitely a need to address the legacy that Spider-Man has (somewhat accidentally) created and passed down, not to mention an entire Multiverse of heroes, anti-heroes, and even occasional villains echoing his spider motif, to say nothing of his clones' existence. Those all have to be raising some form of existential questions for "our" Spider-Man, and tackling those could lead to some pretty good, introspective storytelling that helps to develop Peter further, as both a hero and a character, much like the 90s animated series finale Spider Wars did, in my view.

[Frontier]

Honestly I don't think it's a matter of whether they undo OMD or not or bring the marriage back but simply a matter of telling good stories that respect the character and take him and his world seriously while respecting what came before.

Did Spencer undo OMD? No (even if he possibly wanted too). He didn't even have to bring the marriage back to get Peter and MJ back together. But what he was was a genuine storyteller who understood the characters and the mythos and used that to tell stories (even if the story kind of got away from him by the end).

I also don't think 616 Spider-Man should chase after or imitate Ultimate. Let them be their own distinct entities doing their own distinct things that lean into their respective interpretations of the character and their worlds.

5. Address the fact there are now multiple Spider-People. I mean actually address it. What's Peter's opinion on so many people taking on his mantle? How does Jameson feel? How about Spider-Man's villains? Because Peter and his supporting cast have been frozen in amber since OMD, we never properly got into their head to learn how they feel about Miles, Spider-Gwen, etc. No more. The existence of multiple Spider-People in the MU should be like Krakoa. It should be a "new chapter" in Spidey's history, like when he graduated high school, lost Gwen, got married, etc. They don't all have to form a team or live together but the attitude of the characters in the book can't just be "Yeah there's another Spider-Man and we team up sometimes". Drop that. Also drop any old Spider-Man tropes that don't work with Miles being around. The whole "What if I'm doing more harm than good as Spider-Man" thing that 60s-70s comics liked to do doesn't work anymore when there's literally a younger gen inspired by you.

I think we should just accept that Peter and multiple Spider-People just doesn't work. He can team-up with Miles or Gwen and they can use their own distinct thing but ultimately I don't think Peter's narrative has ever been benefitted from having multiple Spider-People or the characters really all work together collectively.

Not even Spencer could really make it work.

[Mister Mets]

I think most of the people who don't like the current run will be happy if there are well-told stories where Peter and MJ are back together.

[Mister Mets]

Even if Peter and MJ reconcile at the end of this run/beginning of the next run, Marvel hasn't given any reason why readers should care when they can split them up again at a moment's notice.

But I wonder how they plan on getting people hyped up for ASM. Because the title has clearly fallen from where it began. The question is does that even matter?

Readers should have already be aware that Marvel can split up Peter and MJ at a minute's notice. Otherwise they're ignorant about the basics of internal workings of the industry.

[Coop]

Readers should have already be aware that Marvel can split up Peter and MJ at a minute's notice. Otherwise they're ignorant about the basics of internal workings of the industry.

Awareness and acceptance are different things. And acceptance has never been a particularly strong suit for comic book readers who campaigned to get Hal back. Barry back. Wally back. Felicia back from her turn as queenpin, etc.

I agree with Kevinroc that there will be diminishing returns every time they dramatically reunite and upsettingly separates Peter and Mary Jane going forward. That's a consequence they'll have to deal with

[Frontier]

Awareness and acceptance are different things. And acceptance has never been a particularly strong suit for comic book readers who campaigned to get Hal back. Barry back. Wally back. Felicia back from her turn as queenpin, etc.

I agree with Kevinroc that there will be diminishing returns every time they dramatically reunite and upsettingly separates Peter and Mary Jane going forward. That's a consequence they'll have to deal with

Honestly I think ultimately the writing and characterization matters most.