IMPERIUS REX! Namor Appreciation

[DragonsChi]

I'm reading through some older Namor comics- and it seems every writer after Everett hated Lady Dorma. What for?

I sorta feel that most writers after Everett never quite understood their relationship. Lady Dorma was more interested in Namor than he was into her. Then when Stan revised the character in the Silver Age he used her to play off of Sue and Namor. One to push Stan's leading girl Sue (nothing wrong with that btw) and Two to show the opposite end of a women adoring Namor. Lady Dorma became a window of showing Namors more positive points, thereby validating Namor and justify Sue's attraction. While in the same stork Dorma began to lean more and more on the villainess side of things as the years progressed.

Most writers saw the surface value there after and played up the bad side of Lady Dorma.

At least that is what I think.

[Bunai]

They wanted to write about every female character falling in love with Namor. Lady Dorma was an obstacle.

I sorta feel that most writers after Everett never quite understood their relationship. . .

The old animated show got me into Dorma and how loyal and found she was to Namor. And I agree, it actually does make his antics tolerable when she is around to point out all the good he does. I find it a waste that Sue, a woman who rejected Namor time and time again, was put over Lady Dorma, a woman that adored him and loved her people.

Oyi, it reminds me of fanfic writers that intentionally remove a character because they feel another is 'in the way' of a ship. And Lady Dorma turning villainous just made her out of character and another version of Llyra; which wasn't needed.

[DragonsChi]

The old animated show got me into Dorma and how loyal and found she was to Namor. And I agree, it actually does make his antics tolerable when she is around to point out all the good he does. I find it a waste that Sue, a woman who rejected Namor time and time again, was put over Lady Dorma, a woman that adored him and loved her people.

Oyi, it reminds me of fanfic writers that intentionally remove a character because they feel another is 'in the way' of a ship. And Lady Dorma turning villainous just made her out of character and another version of Llyra; which wasn't needed.

I agree to an extant. However, Sue's and Namors relationship is another aspect of the Marvel Universe as a whole that makes the universe in of itself so great.

Their story started in the beginnings of Marvel and had to be one of the first examples in comics where a woman would choose to be dedicated to her family instead of leaving to live a life of luxury with a more handsome and more powerful suitor. It's one of the first times you would see a man so passionately display his longing for woman he truly loved, offering every and any treasure he had only to be told no. You also have to remember that unlike today Namor was actually a popular hero (at least well recognized) during that time. This would be the first example of popular war hero not instantly winning the girl, sorta speak. (SideNote: Clint Eastwood claimed Namor as his favorite super hero just to give you an idea of Namors status in the 60's)

So yeah it is a shame that Namor still has not found a new love to replace or even just to push down his love for Sue but in the same vein , the Marvel Universe would lost a big part of what made it so unique. These smaller concepts are the foundational stones of several other relationships we would see in Marvel.

People crap on (Not you just in general) the early days of how Sue was written but often they forget that at the time these things where big concepts for a man of Namor status and a woman like Sue. It would have been more in line at the time for Sue to dump the nerdy stretchy professor to live a life as regale mythical Queen by choosing the beef swimmer King. The fact that she stayed, to essentially be the den mother to 3 men who's ego rival that of Namor's, each in their own way, show's a level of strength and sacrifice women go through to take care of their families.

For those who want to skip the long winded response .....

It be nice for Namor to have moved on but if he did the MU ,in terms of romantic relationships , would have lost some of it's uniqueness and potentially some of the things that made Marvel the most popular comic company that it is today.

[Digifiend]

Namor appeared in Exiles #3 today.

[Bunai]

. . .
It be nice for Namor to have moved on but if he did the MU ,in terms of romantic relationships , would have lost some of it's uniqueness and potentially some of the things that made Marvel the most popular comic company that it is today.

This one I get and I understand the giddiness of the romantic tension, but I am more on the writers finding an excuse to push Lady Dorma over the edge just to remove her instead of having her 'move on' or at least come to an understanding. It's like writers don't even want to try to understand what made a Marvel couple a couple; they'd rather raz it and add their own thing.

In terms of Sue being written, I've found her better developed in Alternate Earths, however, it seems some of that attitude transferred to the 616 over time- which is appreciated. When it comes to her and Namor I'll have to find a direct comic that attempts explain their attractions. Because it seems more of "in the moment" attraction rather then finding the actual need to care for one another.

Namor appeared in Exiles #3 today.

I'm seeing panels of it on Twitter, they look hilarious!

[Darkspellmaster]

The old animated show got me into Dorma and how loyal and found she was to Namor. And I agree, it actually does make his antics tolerable when she is around to point out all the good he does. I find it a waste that Sue, a woman who rejected Namor time and time again, was put over Lady Dorma, a woman that adored him and loved her people.

Oyi, it reminds me of fanfic writers that intentionally remove a character because they feel another is 'in the way' of a ship. And Lady Dorma turning villainous just made her out of character and another version of Llyra; which wasn't needed.

For me I would love to see her come back, given that you're right that she makes it easier to see the good that he does. I would hope that if they did finally do a movie, they would use her over day Betty Dean, as the main love interest. (Although who am I kidding, some writer will see "male version of little mermaid" right there and have Dorma again be the 'girl next door' who can't get the guy to look at her.) It's interesting that writers see her as an obstacle, unlike say someone like Pepper, or Jane, or MJ, etc. I honestly would think that she could even be a good non romantic character for him.

I mean I can also argue that Arthur has Mera, so why not have Dorma around. She could easily win over a lot of popularity given she can be loyal, but also just as fierce as he can, and could be a force to reckon with. I remember in this thread there was talk on how to bring her back using the idea of her being connected to an ocean goddess and using that mythology to give her a stronger connection to the water and make her more important to Atlantis and Namor by that connection.

Also Hippy namor reminds me of Gene Kelly's look from the Pirate and the Princess with Judy Garland.

[DragonsChi]

Personally, even though I like some of the qualities in Lady Dorma I never saw her as someone right for Namor long term. Unlike Mera to Arthur, Lady Dorma does not complement Namor in every aspect of his life. She doesn't really add or bring much value to him or vise versa for that matter.

Lady Dorma would be content sitting on the throne ruling Atlantis basking it up. While Namor being a man from both worlds needs a little more going on. He needs to be able to walk away from the throne for a bit to stop some injustice. Not even to "superhero" just to fight something he finds injustice. It's a constant inner struggle I see with the character. He is a man who loves the throne but internally does not like that he is shackled to it. Which in my opinion just means he needs to find a woman with a greater ambition.

If that makes any sense. There is this strong duality to the character that constantly plays against himself and current writers do not seem to understand.

[The Ray]

Their story started in the beginnings of Marvel and had to be one of the first examples in comics where a woman would choose to be dedicated to her family instead of leaving to live a life of luxury with a more handsome and more powerful suitor. It's one of the first times you would see a man so passionately display his longing for woman he truly loved, offering every and any treasure he had only to be told no. You also have to remember that unlike today Namor was actually a popular hero (at least well recognized) during that time. This would be the first example of popular war hero not instantly winning the girl, sorta speak. (SideNote: Clint Eastwood claimed Namor as his favorite super hero just to give you an idea of Namors status in the 60's)

What?

Sue was already living a life of luxury, while Namor was literally a hobo at the time. A violent hobo.

So, Sue chose to stay with her rich family instead of leaving her family for a violent hobo that just appeared. What a great woman! The only surprising thing is the fact that she actually thought about leaving her family to begin with.

[Holt]

Still going at it, huh?

[Thor-El]

The old animated show got me into Dorma and how loyal and found she was to Namor. And I agree, it actually does make his antics tolerable when she is around to point out all the good he does. I find it a waste that Sue, a woman who rejected Namor time and time again, was put over Lady Dorma, a woman that adored him and loved her people.

Oyi, it reminds me of fanfic writers that intentionally remove a character because they feel another is 'in the way' of a ship. And Lady Dorma turning villainous just made her out of character and another version of Llyra; which wasn't needed.

As a fan of the 60s cartoon I have to side with all naming Dorma as the definite romantic interest for Namor.

[dzub]

Still going at it, huh?

Do not feed the troll. - Old Internet Proverb

[DragonsChi]

Do not feed the troll. - Old Internet Proverb

This!

However, let it be known that I am not implying anything just agreeing to a statement a that was made. In-spite of the obvious situation that is and has been taking place for awhile now.

[Thor-El]

For my dear atlanteans, some goodness from that awesome Marvel Superheroes cartoons from the 60's: S01E22 l The Thing from Space l Sub-Mariner 1966 Cartoon

[Bunai]

As a fan of the 60s cartoon I have to side with all naming Dorma as the definite romantic interest for Namor.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/cea1c519...ugaw5b_500.png

T'was quite a lovely dress.

[Of Atlantis]

Personally, even though I like some of the qualities in Lady Dorma I never saw her as someone right for Namor long term. Unlike Mera to Arthur, Lady Dorma does not complement Namor in every aspect of his life. She doesn't really add or bring much value to him or vise versa for that matter.

Lady Dorma would be content sitting on the throne ruling Atlantis basking it up. While Namor being a man from both worlds needs a little more going on. He needs to be able to walk away from the throne for a bit to stop some injustice. Not even to "superhero" just to fight something he finds injustice. It's a constant inner struggle I see with the character. He is a man who loves the throne but internally does not like that he is shackled to it. Which in my opinion just means he needs to find a woman with a greater ambition.

If that makes any sense. There is this strong duality to the character that constantly plays against himself and current writers do not seem to understand.

Thinking about it, I wouldn't mind Namor and Atlantis to finally have a Queen. I think he's one of the few characters I could see potentially benefiting off of being married as far as character growth is concerned. Would allow him to believably have adventures outside of Atlantis while having it under capable hands.

I liked Lady Dorma, but while think Sub-Mariner comics were decades ahead of its time, her character I feel still suffered from comic writing being a product of its generation. I think these days, writers have a much better understanding of how to write women. A modern Lady Dorma could potentially be a force to be reckoned with. And with Namor's obvious infatuation with strong women, I feel like that could be a really great relationship in this day and age.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StPPkd0E0Z4

cringed so much brothers

I thought this was hilarious...

"Even Hawkeye is in the movie. He shoots arrows, Jimmy."