IMPERIUS REX! Namor Appreciation

[Thor-El]

it was that Secret Empire mini whose name I can't remember. there's no way that you missed it. Bucky was undercover in Atlantis for some reason. Namora was opposing Namor; who was quite ready to forfeit his piece of the cosmic cube. it ended with Namor looking at that alien as if it were his prized possession. I talked about it incessantly because I was only one who read the Hyperion series. a carnival had pretty much taken control of a small town after finding that creature in spaceship crash/enslaving it. it was giving them superpowers/making them indestructible. it was freed at the end of the Hyperion series and turned up in Atlantis (which makes sense because it looks like a water dwelling creature).

Hmm! Hopefully there's some mind control going on here. That certainly would explain Namor's actions and his black eyes in the current Avengers issue!

[Michael Watkins]

Hmm! Hopefully there's some mind control going on here. That certainly would explain Namor's actions and his black eyes in the current Avengers issue!

the creature did have a grudge against humanity (understandably so). it certainly twisted the townsfolk that it turned into carnival freaks/wiped their memories.

[Triniking1234]

I'm guessing Aaron is gonna wrap up his use of Namor before The Best Defense.

[Thor-El]

Well, sadly the new Invaders series solicitations for January seems to confirm my worst fears. Namor seems to have turned into a villain.

https://www.newsarama.com/42355-marv...e=notification

INVADERS #1
CHIP ZDARSKY (W) • CARLOS MAGNO & BUTCH GUICE (A)
Cover by BUTCH GUICE
Variant Cover by MICO SUAYAN
Variant Cover by ALEX ROSS
VIRGIN VARIANT COVER BY JOE QUESADA
B&W VIRGIN VARIANT COVER BY JOE QUESADA
HIDDEN GEM VARIANT COVER BY FRANK ROBBINS
VARIANT COVER BY SKOTTIE YOUNG

THE GREATEST GENERATION OF MARVEL HEROES IS BACK –
TO STOP ONE OF THEIR OWN!
In commemoration of Marvel’s 80th anniversary and springing from events in the pages of AVENGERS and THE BEST DEFENSE, the Marvel Universe’s first super-team is back! CAPTAIN AMERICA. THE HUMAN TORCH. THE WINTER SOLDIER. NAMOR. They fought in WORLD WAR II together as THE INVADERS. But now NAMOR is the enemy, a global threat more powerful than ever. His deadly plans are as deep and far-reaching as the ocean and REVELATIONS about his past could THREATEN the MARVEL UNIVERSE! It’s up to his old teammates to stop him, but what chance do they have against the man who knows their every move? ”War Ghost” begins here!
40 PGS./Rated T …$4.99

[Thor-El]

I'm guessing Aaron is gonna wrap up his use of Namor before The Best Defense.

Al Ewing says the Best Defense unifying story comes from Jason Aaron so it seems everything germinates from this avengers story or at least is interconnected.

"Ewing: The idea I had when we all started was that we’d each bring the story we always wanted to do for whoever our single issue was about, and then we’d mash it all together into something bizarre. So, the non-team would create a kind of non-collaboration, and I was confident whatever fell out of that would be in the spirit of the Defenders. And, luckily, Jason had an idea that was so big and so mad that it burned like a miniature sun and that anchored things very quickly, and Gerry and Chip had their own ideas that fit really well with that, and it all ended up flowing together."

https://www.cbr.com/ewing-zdarsky-du...nse-interview/

[Reviresco]

I could be wrong, but I think that Defenders article is referring to Jason Latour, not Jason Aaron. Latour is doing the Silver Surfer issue, so there's a possibility that the Defenders stuff won't have much to do with what Jason Aaron is doing in Avengers. OTOH, as you point out, Zdarsky did say the Invaders book was going to spin out of Avengers and his Defenders piece, so ...

As for Namor being turned into a villain in the Invaders book -- I'm more worried about what Jason Aaron is doing with Namor in Avengers, than Chip Zdarsky, on that score. Just because Namor is Cap and company's 'enemy' doesn't necessarily make him a villain. Namor has spent several stories being an adversary to various surface heroes, often because he's pursuing plans to protect Atlantis, without being what I would call a villain.

Yes, I am trying to being optimistic, but I do share your fears.

On the plus side of that CBR interview with the Defenders writers, I do like what I'm hearing from Zdarsky. Now, I want to track down those editors he repeatedly pitched and ask WHERE is that Namor book? I am also very happy to see a Namor centric plot up FIRST. None of that James "I've got plans for Namor" Robinson nonsense, and never getting around to writing about Namor.

And I'm even more excited about that Carlos Magno art. Wow! So detailed and dynamic. I've read LANTERN CITY and knew he could do detail, but I thought his work there was a bit stiff. He's definitely stepped up his art. There's a Steve McNiven vibe to these panels. Also, who are these people? That is one powerful guy man handling Namor.

[Bunai]

As someone else mentioned in the Avengers #9 thread. It seems Namor is reacting rather than instigating.

So villainous isn't really coming to mind for me.

Even though I would use that for other moments.

[Reviresco]

I'm guessing Aaron is gonna wrap up his use of Namor before The Best Defense.

Maybe. I didn't see Namor mentioned in the latest Avengers solicit. But I think Namor has some role in War of Realms.

As someone else mentioned in the Avengers #9 thread. It seems Namor is reacting rather than instigating.

So villainous isn't really coming to mind for me.

Even though I would use that for other moments.

Most of Namor's interactions with the surface world is about reacting to their attacks and actions. That's why his name means _Avenging_ Son. Namor killing Stingray in this issue is villainous, IMO. I hope Aaron clears this up, because that is just not something Namor would do.

[Genii96]

Found that great, in depth article by John Cimino on the history of the Namor vs Hulk battles-- 45 of them! And most are a draw, but the finally tally is 4 fights won by each.

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/0...b-mariner.html

I love this answer from the editor.



Sadly, Namor hasn't gotten the power creep both Thor and Hulk (and others) have gotten over the years. It seems most writers are unaware or use Namor's increase in strength due to water.

All 4 losses from the hulk in that context came from the same fight tho,not different fights

[Bob Probert]

All 4 losses from the hulk in that context came from the same fight tho,not different fights

Not sure what you even mean?

[Thor-El]

I could be wrong, but I think that Defenders article is referring to Jason Latour, not Jason Aaron. Latour is doing the Silver Surfer issue, so there's a possibility that the Defenders stuff won't have much to do with what Jason Aaron is doing in Avengers. OTOH, as you point out, Zdarsky did say the Invaders book was going to spin out of Avengers and his Defenders piece, so ...

Ah, I missed that about Jason Latour, you must be right.

As for Namor being turned into a villain in the Invaders book -- I'm more worried about what Jason Aaron is doing with Namor in Avengers, than Chip Zdarsky, on that score. Just because Namor is Cap and company's 'enemy' doesn't necessarily make him a villain. Namor has spent several stories being an adversary to various surface heroes, often because he's pursuing plans to protect Atlantis, without being what I would call a villain.

Yes, I am trying to being optimistic, but I do share your fears.

Yes, I'm still holding on hoping for some kind of mind control but it still a huge disservice to Namor to kill one of his longtime allies, not to mention supporting cast. Made me feel as bad as when they killed the Warriors Three on Thor Ragnarok, the movie. But this was even worst since it was Namor himself killing an old friend!

On the plus side of that CBR interview with the Defenders writers, I do like what I'm hearing from Zdarsky. Now, I want to track down those editors he repeatedly pitched and ask WHERE is that Namor book? I am also very happy to see a Namor centric plot up FIRST. None of that James "I've got plans for Namor" Robinson nonsense, and never getting around to writing about Namor.

Oh, yes! I remember that!

And I'm even more excited about that Carlos Magno art. Wow! So detailed and dynamic. I've read LANTERN CITY and knew he could do detail, but I thought his work there was a bit stiff. He's definitely stepped up his art. There's a Steve McNiven vibe to these panels. Also, who are these people? That is one powerful guy man handling Namor.

That art is pretty good but you know me, if he doesn't have his iconic look I'm not satisfied. This new look is so alien with the long flowing hair and stubble. It makes Namor too young looking and sort of emo more like a member of a punk rock band than lord of the seas.

[Thor-El]

So villainous isn't really coming to mind for me.

The killing of Stingray is pure villainy to the utmost degree. This is the first time I can remember I see a superhero killing an old teammate. And this is not Namor killing another hero like say Namor killing Hawkeye or killing Hulk, or even Hyperion which in certain way would have been justified. This is a supporting cast comrade of arms from his own serialized mythology.

[Reviresco]

All 4 losses from the hulk in that context came from the same fight tho,not different fights

Not sure what you even mean?

I'm not either. Namor's wins, as well as the Hulk's, come from 4 different issues.

[DragonsChi]

I had to go back and check some of my older issues with the Hulk and Namor...looking again it can be said that they ended in a draw but for the most part it looked as if Namor had the upper hand.( At least in the issues I have) The I'm clearly missing some Hulk and all Order issues that Namor appeared in, up until reading Reviresco post/link did not know existed. ( So thank you Rev for giving me more issues to hunt down.) The Avengers issues where he fights the Hulk I didn't really consider since it wasn't a 1v1 match up and if I remember correctly was during the time were Namor wasn't at full power. (He lost his ability to fly and I think his strength was decreased?)

But all in all Namor went about two decades before he saw his second loss to the Hulk according to that blog. That is saying something to the level of how high Namor's capabilities and powers where back in the day. What we saw in Avengers #9 should be standard Namor just based off of his past alone.

[Mantis Dad]

Namor should always be a top tier hero when it comes to strength and power. I think of him as equal with Hulk (when Hulk in normal Hulk and not WWH or Immortal Hulk), and equal with Thor (except that darn Hammer and God stuff always gives him a slight upper hand).

As far as Namor letting Walter be killed like that. That is totally not Namor; I cannot believe Tiger Shark didn't call that bluff right away. If that was Namor, then shame on JA for writing such a tale. Totally not something Namor would do, and I hope he explains the reasons he would write something like that.