IMPERIUS REX! Namor Appreciation

[Reviresco]

I also really liked his brother Sal's work, especially around the era of Avengers # 69, Squadron Sinister, as well.

Oh, yes! Those Buscema Brothers had great talent! I love, love, love their work!!!

Didn't Sal start out by inking his brother John's work? IIRC, he did the classic Avengers 71, which 'introduced' the Invaders, and it looked a lot like John's work.

[Reviresco]

I agree so much with that. Namor doesn't have a huge roster of characters mainly because they all die, so seeing him lose what little he has left is just tiring. I know Marvel might try to introduce new members but honestly not all of their newer character make it out of whatever issue/series they are in. Like Abira from the Namor the First Mutant series, what happened to her? I would have loved to see more of Atlantean society and schooling and the Logomancer stuff. Anything more than just the war stuff/nameless soldiers they always have around him. The story line of Namor being the conduit of magic for Atlantis was so interesting!

I feel Namor the First Mutant was vastly underrated and really wish we could have another comic that is actually exploring Atlantis. I always want more Atlantis but Marvel seems to think that means more destroyed Atlantis.

I agree 100%.

Stuart Moore was doing some interesting things with Namor, but I think the art, and the lack of a consistent artist, really hampered Namor the First Mutant. I like Olivetti's art, and his figure work was good, but nothing but endless panels of empty blue really didn't take advantage of Namor's ocean environment, no matter how 'realistic' that may be.

I thought that was a great idea too! Think of the cool stories that could have been told with Namor and Doctor Strange! Namor could have been like giant magic battery for Strange!

Not only Abira, but where's Loa? Both would be a great addition to the Defenders of the Deep.

Also, where's the original cast? Where's Vashti and Warlord Seth?

Agreed.

The story for the past 10 or more years now when Namor shows up is : Atlantis gets destroyed, Someone close to Namor dies or gets injured, and then why should fans care since this thing you gave us last time.

The worst part about it is ...if Marvel really wants to make Namor a bad guy they could at least put more effort in to make him a decent villain. As of right now even those attempts are incredibly poor.

I don't really want Namor made into a villain -- he's just not one -- and he's far more complicated than that.

But yes, I agree. The destruction and downgrading of Atlantis is beyond terminal. They keep wanting to make Atlantis some primitive, spear wielding, barbarians, who everyone can invade and trash. That's so NOT what they are. They've always been far ahead technology wise, than anyone on the planet. They've are the heirs to the magic of the most ancient civilization on the planet, Atlantis. They live in the most hostile environment on the planet, where humans beings can't even venture, much less invade or ridiculously, sneak into. Enough already.

[Oberon]

I do not * begrudgingly * admit that the older, Atlantean based stories were clear favorites. Destiny, Tiger Shark and some of that, went along with those stories. Dorcas trying to destroy Atlantis, etc.

I never saw the more magical stories but I'm sure I would have liked them as well.

[Oberon]

The thing I liked about the Old Atlanteans in Hickman's FF run, was it showed that the ocean is so vast, there is so much more to explore there.

I like the idea of Ancient-er Atlantis having ties to Deviants/culture, which really should explain a lot of things in the Marvel Universe.

A better story for Namor would be exploring this murky past for some reason that is relevant to the modern world or surface, or any number of concerns.

Weren't some of the oldest cities of Atlantis in the far Arctic - - where it has recently been revealed some giant Celestial's corpse has leaked agents into the developing earth that paved the way for everything that has followed. Hmmmmmm?

[DragonsChi]

I don't really want Namor made into a villain -- he's just not one -- and he's far more complicated than that.

But yes, I agree. The destruction and downgrading of Atlantis is beyond terminal. They keep wanting to make Atlantis some primitive, spear wielding, barbarians, who everyone can invade and trash. That's so NOT what they are. They've always been far ahead technology wise, than anyone on the planet. They've are the heirs to the magic of the most ancient civilization on the planet, Atlantis. They live in the most hostile environment on the planet, where humans beings can't even venture, much less invade or ridiculously, sneak into. Enough already.

I don't want him to be a villain either. And I fully agree the real Namor is an incredibly complicated but completely compelling character. I'm just saying that the way Namor is being used is half a$@. If the goal is to make fans hate Namor or view him as a bad guy they could at least take to a level where fans love to hate him. (This is something else I don't want just stating that most attempts at using Namor negatively have come of incredibly flat along with a side of WTF.)

The technology is aspect of Atlantis also has been irking me with present Namor and Atlantis. Originally, before Marvel was freaking Marvel Namor was the cat super heroes like Captain America and the Invaders went to for high tech stuff. They used his Space/Air/Water ship to get around and so on. Atlantis was the outstanding mythical city. However, now days they are holding down the hobo culture hard.

I don't think Marvel needs to radically change Atlantis into Wakanda or anything but I do feel they need to at the very least make Atlantis competitive with them and the surface world.

[Reviresco]

I do not * begrudgingly * admit that the older, Atlantean based stories were clear favorites. Destiny, Tiger Shark and some of that, went along with those stories. Dorcas trying to destroy Atlantis, etc.

I never saw the more magical stories but I'm sure I would have liked them as well.

Those are some of my favorites, also.

Well, remember, right after the Tiger Shark and Destiny storyline, Roy Thomas did one of Namor's first magic story lines, with the revelation / introduction of the Serpent Crown and Lemuria and Naga and Set. Thomas exercised some of his love of Robert E. Howard in those issues, almost a test run / experiment for his Conan stuff.

Actually, now that I think about it, that may be something Jason Aaron is doing also (he is writing the new Conan), what with the inclusion of Roxxon. How many times have they tried to get the Crown? The Serpent Crown would also explain Namor's out of character actions, as well as the fear of the Atlantean children.

The thing I liked about the Old Atlanteans in Hickman's FF run, was it showed that the ocean is so vast, there is so much more to explore there.

I like the idea of Ancient-er Atlantis having ties to Deviants/culture, which really should explain a lot of things in the Marvel Universe.

A better story for Namor would be exploring this murky past for some reason that is relevant to the modern world or surface, or any number of concerns.

Weren't some of the oldest cities of Atlantis in the far Arctic - - where it has recently been revealed some giant Celestial's corpse has leaked agents into the developing earth that paved the way for everything that has followed. Hmmmmmm?

Not sure about the Celestial stuff. I haven't followed most of the newer stuff. The Deviant stuff was a bit confusing to me -- but it was something that was added to the Atlantean history, and not exactly smoothly.

I'm pretty sure Atlantis is the oldest city because of the ties to King Kull's Atlantis. But there were Atlantean cities in the Antarctic -- Namor's original home was there. Stuart Moore and Hickman both put old cities there also.

There was some things I liked about Hickman's Old Atlanteans. But that plot line was left sort of dangling, even though they sort of reverted to form, like Namor said they would.

[Reviresco]

I don't want him to be a villain either. And I fully agree the real Namor is an incredibly complicated but completely compelling character. I'm just saying that the way Namor is being used is half a$@. If the goal is to make fans hate Namor or view him as a bad guy they could at least take to a level where fans love to hate him. (This is something else I don't want just stating that most attempts at using Namor negatively have come of incredibly flat along with a side of WTF.)

I don't know. I think a lot of Black Panther fans hate Namor, and there a lot of people that now consider him a Black Panther villain. Thanks a lot, Hickman.

The technology is aspect of Atlantis also has been irking me with present Namor and Atlantis. Originally, before Marvel was freaking Marvel Namor was the cat super heroes like Captain America and the Invaders went to for high tech stuff. They used his Space/Air/Water ship to get around and so on. Atlantis was the outstanding mythical city. However, now days they are holding down the hobo culture hard.

LOL! That's a descriptive way of putting it. But true.

And yes, I agree 100%. Atlantis WAS the original high tech civilization. Even the first bio-tech civilization! Remember in Fantastic Four Annual #1, Atlantis basically conquered all of the surface world in an afternoon!

I don't think Marvel needs to radically change Atlantis into Wakanda or anything but I do feel they need to at the very least make Atlantis competitive with them and the surface world.

It wouldn't be a new change. It would be a return to Atlantis' original leading status in the MU. And I agree. Marvel needs to restore Atlantis to it's major power level and STOP treating it like a punching bag to generate non-existent drama or establish some other group's cred.

[Reviresco]

Chip Zdarsky confirms Marvel Two In One will be ending, and drops this bit of surprising news.

https://www.newsarama.com/42476-marv...mber-s-12.html

"I knew I wanted to tell a couple of personal stories between the characters for issues #11 and #12, but I really want to stay out of the way of Dan’s Fantastic Four book, so it seemed like as good a time as any to wrap it up," Zdarsky told Newsarama. "This, of course, coincided with developing Invaders, which feels like the spiritual successor to Marvel 2-in-One.


"Invaders will be about what we do for family, just like 2-in-One was. I hope people check it out."

Well, that sounds different from what the solicits have been saying. Gives me hope.

[Hypestyle]

has Namor ever interacted with an underwater society on an alien planet? That could make for a good storyline.

[Thor-El]

I like how the cartoon had difference menaces threaten Atlantis and Namor had to deal with it. From political enemies trying to wrestle the kingdom from him from within to barbarian dissident factions often lead by Attuma attacking , and then the occasional surface world adventure. I loved when Namor had to go in a quest to get an antidote for his people or was captured and thrown in a gladiatorial arena while traveling to another world, time or dimension and give him an opportunity to flex his muscles and show off his strength, or just entertain his subjects with his feats of strength while enjoying a period of peace. The cartoon was very Atlantis centrist and Namor was portrayed as a benevolent "barbarian like king" very similar to a King Conan. It also gave often Lady Dhorma, Lord Vashti, Krang, Attuma and many other atlanteans characters their time in the spotlight.

[Oberon]

Yes, the dangling is annoying.

Thanks for reminding me of the Serpent crown story - - that was very good and you're right the beginning of that tone or meme for Namor or others even.

Those Roxxon/Crown stories in the Avengers around # 144 were great too. Perez, on art, I think... ?

To me the Deviant thing is not such a bad overlay to the Atlantean origins, but should definitely have some real clarification. But Deviants were world wide so I can see these people encountering each other over the ages. Again, rather dangling. Since Deviants seem to be more monstrous in appearance/those characteristics, I think they could be part of the DNA of those Old Atlanteans or whatever from Hickman's story.

[Oberon]

Fond memories of Namor's cartoon. Even as a child in the '60s I knew he was special.

[Hypestyle]

Fond memories of Namor's cartoon. Even as a child in the '60s I knew he was special.

there should be a new cartoon series, but I don't know if the movie rights interfere with that.. oh well...

[Reviresco]

Comicbook.com and others are reporting this news from Feige on Namor's movie / appearance status based off a tweet from a guy named Erick Weber -- I think he's a Hollywood reporter.

https://twitter.com/ErickWeber/statu...54148010475520

"OK, here we go, 3 quick questions, answers directly from Kevin Feige's mouth," Weber wrote in the tweet.

"1) Avengers 4 trailer 'before the end of the year'

2) Namor COULD make an appearance, still deciding IF & when

3) Guardians 3 status 'on hold.'"

https://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/10...or-in-the-mcu/


Sounds pretty non-committal to me. Others have pointed out the "IF" may be "IF Aquaman does well." sigh.

[Reviresco]

has Namor ever interacted with an underwater society on an alien planet? That could make for a good storyline.

Sort of. Mostly alien underwater societies / races coming to Earth. In Sub-Mariner #17, the alliteratively titled, Stalker From the Stars!, an alien race comes to steal our water! Namor teams up with Triton to foil them, and steals all their water instead. But he ends up losing his gills! This eventually leads to a confrontation and first appearance of Stingray.

Then there's the gorgeous Sub-Mariner #56, which features water breathing alien refugees seeing asylum (Namor dealing with real life issues, even back in the 70s), a horrible misunderstanding, and the introduction of Tamara Rahn. And where is she, Marvel writers???

And of course, Namor has actually married an alien, Mariana. Again, where is she, Marvel writers???