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  1. #76
    IMPERIUS REX! Chief Jon's Avatar
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    Post Namor As Superman Part 2

    Powers aside, from their very origins Namor and Kal-El share in common a background as men caught between and shaped by two worlds. Superman is the last survivor of Krypton (aside from some versions of Supergirl and Krypto and the Phantom Zone Criminals, etc.), appearing human but possessing extraordinary abilities as a result of his otherworldly heritage. Likewise Namor, the half-breed son of an otherworldly mother and a human father possesses amazing abilities that set him apart from others. Moving on, Kal-El is raised by adoptive parents to assimilate into American society as Clark Kent, to honor the ethics and values of this culture that took him in. Remaining ignorant of his true origins and heritage until well beyond his formative years at which point he is thoroughly socialized in a traditional American ideology of liberty and justice for all. Namor, on the other hand, is born with his mother believing his American father murdered, resentful of the world of his father's people, obviously physically different from those around him and protected from the prejudices of his mother's people only by his position as a scion of royalty, Namor is denied the opportunity to ever truly fit in. While Superman is an outsider in one world allowed to fit in, Namor is an outsider in both. Later, in Namor's role as a supporting player in the Fantastic Four during the first few years of the Silver Age this similarity realigns itself further as Atlantis has been seemingly destroyed during the interwar years leaving Namor an orphan, the last son of a lost world, though knowing his loss in a way that Kal-El never did (a significant story point for a few years prior to it being undone in Fantastic Four Annual #1).

    The divergences in the common themes of their origin may seemingly nullify any further comparison, but in reality they enrich it and set in motion everything that distinguishes the super heroic universes that followed each of these characters. Superman set the standard at DC for heroes that stood as a fellowship of moral paragons above the frailties (early Golden Age intimidation and blackmail of gangsters, corrupt businessmen and politicians notwithstanding) and moral failings of the villains they foiled and the normal citizens who's protection they took as their charge alike. In contrast much of the core appeal of the stable of Marvel Comics' superheroes has long been identified as anchored in the character's distinct personalities and all too human fallibility. This starts with the Sub-Mariner and his outsider identity, his lack of familiarity with the human world in which he was about to become embroiled affecting a naivety that leads his first interactions with surface men to be unwitting acts of murder. And yet all of Namor's great qualities are what make him a hero on par with Superman. Superman seems imbued inherently with a clear sense of justice, nobility, truth, and leadership. Namor shares these qualities, but his justice comes from wrath and fury, his nobility with pride, his truth a blunt and harsh honesty. And while Superman's ability as a leader come from the guidance of nurturing adoptive parents and activity as a member of the community in which he was raised the same qualities in Namor manifest as those of a ruler, able to set himself apart from his subjects well precisely because of his experience as an outsider.

    As Namor blazed the trail for Marvel's flawed heroes in contrast to Superman and DC's idealized heroes each of them has found themselves evermore at the center of activity in their respective fictional Earths. Whichever of DCs Infinite Earths one might visit, or whichever crisis of time and space has reshaped those world's histories Superman is almost always depicted as an inspiration for at least his generation of superheroes. His interactions with the Justice League and the activities of his own rogues gallery (particularly Lex Luthor, Brainiac and Darkseid and the gods of Apokolips) form the crux of many of the DCU's most significant stories. And inevitably when the Crises that threaten the world seem too dire to overcome, it is always to Superman that the DC Earth ultimately turns to for salvation. Namor has been less a driving force of events to date than Superman, and yet he remains at the center of his world. With longstanding relationships with the Fantastic Four, Avengers, Invaders, X-Men, Defenders, Illuminati, Inhumans, the [defunct] Cabal, Dr. Doom, Atlantis and even ties to more obscure organizations like the Atlas Foundation the Sub-Mariner is always on the edge of any action that might take place in the Marvel universe and can easily be pulled in to virtually any Marvel story or epic whether on the edge or at the center. Each in their own way, the Sub-Mariner and Superman stand as beings truly at the center of their respective worlds.

    I believe the core argument that Namor is an apt candidate for consideration as the Marvel universe's most analogous figure to Superman has been laid out thoroughly. While arguments could be made for other Marvel heroes (or villains) as comparable to Superman these figures lack the deep commonalities as refocused by the lens of the flawed Marvel hero and the depth of history to stand as genuinely analogous to DC's Flagship character. Comparisons between the Sub-Mariner and other DC properties similarly fall flat (but that may be subject for a different composition). What I propose in conclusion is that Namor should be treated and handled by those authoring the character at Marvel with a similar stature and importance to that Superman possess in the DCU. These are different characters, very different personalities to be sure, but Namor IS Marvel's Superman and it is my belief that it is high time that those writers and editors in a position to affect the trajectory of the Marvel Universe and Namor take stock of that reality in any further treatment or presentation of the character.

  2. #77
    IMPERIUS REX! Chief Jon's Avatar
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    The above has been published on a developing fansite. If you want the direct link PM me.

  3. #78
    IMPERIUS REX! Chief Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Water View Post
    Me, too, because Rheged always engaged me in convo in this thread whenever I had questions, comments, and/or scans.
    We miss you already, Rheged. <3
    Indeed. Sometimes just watching your friendship on here brought warmth to my heart.

  4. #79
    Just a Host. Cold Water's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Jon View Post
    Indeed. Sometimes just watching your friendship on here brought warmth to my heart.
    Really??
    *cries*
    <3
    "All it takes for sexism to prosper is for good men to see nothing."

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Water View Post
    Me, too, because Rheged always engaged me in convo in this thread whenever I had questions, comments, and/or scans.
    We miss you already, Rheged. <3
    I enjoyed those conversations as well. Rheged memory in regards to Namor is way better than mine. All of Namors older stuff I read ages ago and it's a pain in the tochus to dig that stuff out but good old Rhegged knows it right on the spot and refreshes my memory.

    Sidenote: Marvel really needs to get all of Namors stuff to digital format, Stat! It be the perfect means for me and I'm sure others to re-read all our favorite Namor stories.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Water View Post
    Because NA has NOT been good so far for Namor.
    It makes up for that and gives some clarification as to why... subtle, mind you.
    But really. You'll love it if you love Namor.

  7. #82
    IMPERIUS REX! Chief Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post
    It makes up for that and gives some clarification as to why... subtle, mind you.
    But really. You'll love it if you love Namor.
    I flipped through it when I picked up the UA annual yesterday. I may pick it up when I go back tomorrow for Free Comic Book Day.

  8. #83
    Newbie Member Hellpop's Avatar
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    anyone remember the old Jae Lee drawn series. i loved it, but the art isn't everyone's cup o tea.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #84
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plantsea View Post

    Ultimate Namor debuted in Ultimate Fantastic Four #24. If you love bad*** Namor, you would really enjoy the arc. This arc is about how Ultimate Fantastic Four first met Ultimate Namor(he is really interesting character) and dealt with him. It also has many awesome Namor moments and Namor/Susan interactions, if you don't mind. I think it is worth to read. Here is some of Ultmate Namor's appearances
    http://www.comicvine.com/ultimate-fa...ces/4005-1476/
    Thank you so much. I will definitely read this. I've been a Namor fan for years, but never read the ultimate version.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  10. #85
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellpop View Post
    anyone remember the old Jae Lee drawn series. i loved it, but the art isn't everyone's cup o tea.
    I actually LOVED the art.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  11. #86
    Just a Host. Cold Water's Avatar
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    Jae Lee draws one of my most favorite Namors. I love Everett, Deodato, and, now, Marie Severin for Namor artists as well.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member Lady Warp Spasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Water View Post
    Me, too, because Rheged always engaged me in convo in this thread whenever I had questions, comments, and/or scans.
    We miss you already, Rheged. <3
    She was a tremendous help to me too on many threads. I still am a Namor/etc. noob, as I do not have the resources or time to read everything I'd like to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Jon View Post
    The above has been published on a developing fansite. If you want the direct link PM me.
    That's terrific, Chief Jon. You make some great points and I enjoy when fans get deep into the characters they care about.

    And Jae Lee's Namor is cool.
    archer * magician *soldier * spy

  13. #88
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    Hey guys, I'm back! I'm glad to see you guys missed me.

    Now to catch up!

  14. #89
    Senior Member WhitOro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellpop View Post
    anyone remember the old Jae Lee drawn series. i loved it, but the art isn't everyone's cup o tea.
    Jae Lee art on Namor was awesome, moody and nightmarish, his underwater and over water scenes fantastic, and his Doom duringr their confrontation was simply phenomenal.
    But his actual Namor? No, I don't like it. I don't really think that look fits him, the hair and badly cut beard make him look like some trashy rocker thats thinks having a mullet makes him hardcore. His most recent works as a cover artits for the First Mutant fit my idea of Namor much more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    Hey guys, I'm back! I'm glad to see you guys missed me.

    Now to catch up!
    Rheged strikes again.

  15. #90
    Fantastic Member Danvidar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    Hey guys, I'm back! I'm glad to see you guys missed me.

    Now to catch up!
    Glad to have you back! What happened?

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