[Spoilers] Before Time Runs Out: Dangling Plot Threads in Hickman's Avengers

[ShaokhaN]

There were already a guess that the Great Destroyer is a Hyperion because how he looks and handle things -> Kicking( I think it was reed) into the sun. I would say he is to 60-80% a evil Hyperion. Which also means he really make it for the fun to corrupt heroes into mass murdering maniacs. Make somehow sense and is absolute in line was Hickman done until now.

What? When did the Great Destroyer ever kick anyone, let alone Reed, into the sun? We saw an alternate Manifold teleport an alternate Reed into the sun, but that's it.

[TakoM]

Yeah I know I was to lazy to edit after I discovered my own error.

[dragonmp93]

The Many Angled Ones and Time Trapper are not from the Marvel Universe.

Well, The Many Angled Ones is, indeed, from the Marvel Multiverse. Its is from the Cancerverse.

[brainwasher]

I say no way Rabum Alal is the evil Hyperion, how anticlimatic would it be? I am also partially sure they said is a new character and not an existing one. Thane I would be really disappointed if he is revelead to be the Great Destroyer, luckly it doesn't make a lot of sense, but I could see why they could do it. My preference would be for someone/thing that just appears in this story and doesn't become a recurring character, whoever he/it is it's too big to be confronted and beaten repeatedly. My personal opinion is that it could be an event and not a being. As for how the end goes, I think it's been made pretty clear more than once:everything dies.

[Deniz Camp]

Well, The Many Angled Ones is, indeed, from the Marvel Multiverse. Its is from the Cancerverse.

Oh, did they take that for the cancer verse? I can't recall -- I remember the term being used for the Lovecraftian stuff from Morrison's Zenith.

[ShaokhaN]

I say no way Rabum Alal is the evil Hyperion, how anticlimatic would it be? I am also partially sure they said is a new character and not an existing one. Thane I would be really disappointed if he is revelead to be the Great Destroyer, luckly it doesn't make a lot of sense, but I could see why they could do it. My preference would be for someone/thing that just appears in this story and doesn't become a recurring character, whoever he/it is it's too big to be confronted and beaten repeatedly. My personal opinion is that it could be an event and not a being. As for how the end goes, I think it's been made pretty clear more than once:everything dies.

Agreed, it would be extremely anti-climatic and disappointing.

I think chances are it's going to be a bit anti-climatic either way, though. Hickman seems to want to focus on human-size characters rather than abstracts in this story. We're not going to get an Anti-Monitor equivalent, I think.

[TakoM]

The chances are very very slim that things went not anti-climatic because all options have a down side maybe not for everyone but you can guess you hit at least 50% of the readers.

The story staies in continuum and has no consequences -> Hell mass murder and mass murder helper/planner goes unpunished?WTF
The story staies in continuum and has consequences -> Many old classic heroes in jail or dead ..somehow also WTF
The story staies not in continuum and has no consequences -> Niece but WTF what was that all about.

I think the new motto of the avengers will be after this run :Fragile Relationships, Useless work and Empty Victories. ...okay I stole that from somewhere^^
But Hickmans draft is to good to ignore the joke.

[jeddi]

In Avengers 24, Future Iron Man says Hyperion being in the current time line is an anamoly. Why?

How and why did Hyperion survive the incursion?

I think this is very important. As Kang said this is all a loop and has happened before, but somethings are different this time. Hyperion being there is one. Another is Cap deciding to stop the Illuminati.

I feel everything will die. But then everything will LIVE. That is how it ends IMO. I also think the key is that library that exists outside of space/time. Whatever the fix is, it has to happen there.

One other prediction. The mapmakers will be reprogrammed to seed the multiverse instead of destroying it.

[DrTraveler]

Wasn't that already mentioned by Kang/Immortus/Iron Lad as being one of the failed options? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

They mention it can't be used as a sacrifice play. I doubt that's the only possible use.

[DrTraveler]

Also, there are a lot of smart folks in this thread!

Hyperion: he's been mentioned a lot in this thread. It got me thinking that maybe there's a detail I'd missed back in Avengers 4 where we see his world destroyed. There is a lot we don't see in that issue. For example, the issue implies the two Earths didn't collide after all but both universes still died. More telling is the " Two Hyperions " theme. Hickman is pretty careful about wording and what it invokes (see "It was an Avengers World"). The two Hyperions idea is likely very important. There is also an implication that Hyperion's utopia isn't built with clean hands. Some of that imagery is disturbing upon a reread.

The Mapmakers: I had forgotten how upset the Mapmakers get when they lose an ancient mapmaker. They were obscenely upset about the lost knowledge. That makes it clear they are not just locusts. Mapmakers are offshoots of Adaptoids, perhaps they're adapting to the multiversal collapse and looking for a solution too?

[celeherald]

I saw one theory on reddit that Rabum Alal is some sort of Celestial and related to Hickman's mythology of a celestial being in the Earth and that its birth causes the destruction of the planet.

[Mahes]

I saw one theory on reddit that Rabum Alal is some sort of Celestial and related to Hickman's mythology of a celestial being in the Earth and that its birth causes the destruction of the planet.

Another case of Earth X being used for canon.

[DrTraveler]

I started this thread a while back, and thought now, as we head into the final issues of Hickman's run, it might be good to check in on some of the questions that were asked:

I thought it'd be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to dangling plot threads currently unresolved in Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers run. Avenger's World is included here as we're seeing some of the plots mentioned and/or closed out there. Needless to say spoilers abound and speculation as to how this all ties in to the end is encouraged.

0: Who is the Great Destroyer, Rabum Alal? This is the big one. Does Rabum Alal even exist? If so, what is his connection to the Incursions? What is his motive? (I am leaning towards him not existing).

Still an open question, and one no closer to being answered. At this point we know he is formidable enough to stand up to the Ivory Kings (more later), but not much else.

1. The System: After "The Last White Event" the Earth was seeded with systems to create a possibly sentient world. Nightmask and Starbrand believed they'd destroyed the brain, but Validator tells her father (and maybe the Avengers) that the "System is online."

The System has been coopted by the "New Avengers". This was an interesting development.

2. The Ivory Kings: Alluded to in New Avengers 12 as one of the big threats associated with the Incursions. As far as I know, they have yet to appear at all.

They've finally been revealed to be Beyonders, making the fact that they're actively at war with the Great Destroyer all the more terrifying.

3. The Black Priests: Also alluded to in NA 12, they have since been at least partially explored. It is hinted that they are connected to Dr. Strange.

They are indeed magic users like Strange and Dr. Strange has become their master and leader. They're trying to save the Multiverse via triage.

4. Dr. Strange: Broke with the Illuminati in NA 24 and disappeared. Left with one of the helmets of the Black Priests (which he obtained from the Great Society). This may be tied to the Black Priests thread above. (Edited with suggestion from user Mahes).

Dr. Strange has moved on to work with the Black Priests. Not a surprising development.

5. AIM Island/Empire: AIM has been a thread throughout the main Avengers book. However, other than meddle they have yet to play any significant role in the story. Clearly aware of the multiversal collapse as seen in Avengers World and Avengers.

Bought out and coopted by Sunspot. It appears they've been working hard on the multiversal collapse problem without much breakthrough. They were however able to provide a lot of key tech to make the plot work.

6. Manifold: Manifold has been name dropped more than once in New Avengers. The existence of other Manifolds in other dimensions has been name dropped. Over in Avenger's World it is hinted that Manifold is important. So what's role will Manifold play in the resolution of all of this?

Still a mystery unfortunately. I do not get what is up here.

7. The Rogue Planet: Stark's descendant hints at the planet's use as a weapon. The Avenger's World sent it back, but their motives for doing so are unclear. Franklin clearly had/has some kind of plan for it in mind. Kang, Immortus, and Kid Iron Man hint it can be used as a sacrifice to buy time, but not as a permanent solution. What role is the Rogue Planet supposed to play in the end game?

Also still a mystery, though speculation is it's attached to Battleworld.

8. What is the Light?: Referenced in the very beginning of Avengers 1 as one of the major events in the legend that is told about this era. What is the Light? Most of the other events have played out from that introduction. EDIT: This was the Last White Event in Avengers 7.

9. The Conversation: Who did Reed and Tony meet with off panel in NA 8? What plan was set in motion? (Listed by user Knight of DC)

We now know that it was Hank Pym, who went off into the multiverse as Yellow Jacket to try to find the Great Destroyer. He failed, and instead found the Ivory Kings.

10: Hyperion and his children: We've seen that Hyperion has not only experienced a Incursion, but survived it in Avengers 4. In Avengers 30 he is told by himself, 50 years out, that he should have entered the White long ago. Hyperion's children are part of the system. What role will Hyperion and his children play in the resolution? How will Hyperion react to learning that the incursions are continuing to happen? (User: Mahes)

Hyperion is off into the white now, and his children are helping AIM, the System, and the New Avengers.

11. Thane: Thane comes out of Infinity with ominous hinting about his role in events to come. Will Thane play a role in events to come? (user Mahes).

Still a mystery, but I suspect this won't have a resolution.

12. Cosmic Characters: What happened to the Living Tribunal? For that matter, are the incursions the source of the damage to Captain Universe? Does Galactus know about the Incursions as Terrax hints? (From ShaokhaN)

Recently revealed that the Abstracts as a whole have been removed from play. Whatever is happening has targeted them to keep them off the playing field.

13. The Great Society: What happened during the Incursion they refuse to talk about? How did they survive that Incursion?(From ShaokhaN)

Still a mystery too. I suspect that we won't find out either.

14. The Mapmakers: What happened to the fragment Dr. Doom kept?(From ShaokhaN)

Doom is using it to map out a way to find the source of the Incursions with Molecule Man and the Mad Thinker.

15. Builder Systems: What role will Starbrand and Nightmask play in the coming Incursion? (From ShaokhaN)

They're part of the assault team sent by AIM and the New Avengers into the Multiverse.

16. Incursion details: Why aren't the planets destroyed at the same time? What are the eight ways to stop an incursion? Is it possible to observe or even stop incursions from interdimensional places like dreamtime, the home of the Black Swans, or the Council of Reeds? (From ShaokhaN)

No resolution yet, but we are seeing that incursion points are starting to change in interesting ways as time goes by. The process is different, the contact points have domes appearing, etc.

17. Namor and Black Swan: What was his proposal back in NA #8? (From dzub)

Did we ever find this one out? Feel like I missed it and with Namor and Swan dead, I'm not sure it would be revisited.

Feel free to add or elaborate as you can. Also, if something particularly relevant is found outside Avengers, New Avengers, and Avengers World, go ahead and add it. I did not add any of Hickman's Fantastic Four material that was clear leading into his Avengers run yet, but it would surely belong here.

Again, feel free to add to the list if more questions have come up, or if I missed answers, speak up by all means!

[seminal2015]

Thanks for the answer to #8- I just started rereading Avengers & NA from start to finish and thought this might be it, but glad to see I'm not the only one.

Hopefully someone sees this since the thread has been dead for a while.

My questions would basically be:

18. I get that the Cabal want to destroy planets, but why would Thanos be fighting this if he wants everything to end up dead anyway?
19. I believe people have mentioned that Valeria likely left the same note for Doom that she did for Reed. Is this explicitly shown/told somewhere?
20. Why would Black Bolt help BP kill Namor?
21. Is there more than one Captain Universe in the multiverse? Is it one per universe? Have we seen any other ones? She hasn't shown up for a while it seems...
22. Though I don't really see it as being true, if there is something to Black Swan = Valeria, I thought that the Manifold in NA1 looked A LOT like Franklin. Have we seen instances where one person in one universe is a different person in another universe (i.e. could Franklin there be Manifold?)
23. This might sound a bit dumb, but I don't totally understand how the incursions actually work. I understanding, as best as we can anyway, the reasoning behind why all this is happening, but in terms of how they functionally occur: Presumably, the two earths bump up against each other, and you can go from one to the other by stepping through the "wall". But how did BP end up back on our earth in NA1 when the other one is blown up? Also, I really don't follow the logic/process of what the Mapmakers/Sidera Maris do. I also only sort of understand the reasoning behind this, as they seem to serve the Beyonders but I don't totally get how doing this fulfills that purpose.

Thanks!

[Montressor]

Oh, did they take that for the cancer verse? I can't recall -- I remember the term being used for the Lovecraftian stuff from Morrison's Zenith.

You are correct--but if my memory serves me correctly, the Many Angled Ones have appeared in both DC and Marvel books, as well as other fiction, under that exact name. It's definitely Lovecraftian stuff, though I'm not certain if he himself ever used that name.