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  1. #1936
    Mighty Member WontonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    If you read them out of order then you will understandably miss a few things but Ms. Rosen is right in that all of those New 52 and Rebirth stories do make references to the stories and developments for Pam that came before them. As touched upon in the article, they've tried to have a redemption arc for her since No Man's Land in one capacity or the other. But a few creators (*cough cough* Paul Dini *cough*) love portraying her as a stonecold villain so their stories go against that flow, which gives the impression to fans who are not that into comics that she is still as villainous and the more morally complex tales are the exception.
    How about people let the fans read the articles and let them draw their own conclusions?

  2. #1937
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    Quote Originally Posted by WontonGirl View Post
    I read the article. I learned quite a bit and I will check out those some of those stories. A few of those stories I read, I think I might have to read again because I didn't the same impression the author got on a couple of them.
    Just as a note. My opinion starts a bit right after the Tula Lotay art and is essentially the last three paragraphs. The rest article are the opinions and intentions of the writers. In order for this to happen I had to also read interviews, ask questions, have people ask questions at cons, social media interactions, DMs. Especially for the Scott Snyder ASB story mr Snyder directly told me which things to notice in the story so I can make better sense of it and wher it stands for Ivy's development.
    But all this work had to be presented as an article so I had to tweak it so it makes sense. It's not an opinion piece but rather a way solve the puzzle. Of ourse there are more stories I could have posted but I wanted to focus on things I could 1000000% verify.

    It's a response to all these clickbait youtube video producers who say "women don't read comics" or "don't know XYZ characters history". So I researched and worked on this. Anyone can ask any of the writers mentioned about the things I mention and they will agree.

    My hope is that this will be an inspiration and a start for a creative discussion on characters.

    I'm very happy with the final result and I hope you guys like it.

    A huge thank again to WWAC. Very high quality articles with attention in detail.

    I have a few other things currently in development but verifying the facts, asking questions, small interviews etc take time and usually happen during big cons by friends so they will take a while.

  3. #1938
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WontonGirl View Post
    How about people let the fans read the articles and let them draw their own conclusions?
    "People" cannot make fans interpret anything they don't want to interpret. I am just saying that the article is correct in that those stories refer to each other and attempt at having a continuous arc for Ivy, which could be missed when read out of order (I'm not condescending to you over it, I read them out of order too, like Gail Simone's Batgirl Annual #2 before Duane S's last Birds of Prey arc featuring Pamela, which was why I didn't instantly make the connection in Simone's story regarding Pam's betrayal of the Birds and Babs).

    I am not forcing conclusions on you, I was just saying you could have missed something like I did. But it's fine if you didn't miss anything and want to stick to your conclusions regardless. Sorry, maybe I should have been clearer on that part.

  4. #1939
    Mighty Member WontonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosenrose View Post
    Just as a note. My opinion starts a bit right after the Tula Lotay art and is essentially the last three paragraphs. The rest article are the opinions and intentions of the writers. In order for this to happen I had to also read interviews, ask questions, have people ask questions at cons, social media interactions, DMs. Especially for the Scott Snyder ASB story mr Snyder directly told me which things to notice in the story so I can make better sense of it and wher it stands for Ivy's development.
    But all this work had to be presented as an article so I had to tweak it so it makes sense. It's not an opinion piece but rather a way solve the puzzle. Of ourse there are more stories I could have posted but I wanted to focus on things I could 1000000% verify.

    It's a response to all these clickbait youtube video producers who say "women don't read comics" or "don't know XYZ characters history". So I researched and worked on this. Anyone can ask any of the writers mentioned about the things I mention and they will agree.

    My hope is that this will be an inspiration and a start for a creative discussion on characters.

    I'm very happy with the final result and I hope you guys like it.

    A huge thank again to WWAC. Very high quality articles with attention in detail.

    I have a few other things currently in development but verifying the facts, asking questions, small interviews etc take time and usually happen during big cons by friends so they will take a while.
    Please send us the links to all the articles and scholarly interpretations. Or you can even PM me with links to your stories and blogs. I would love to have some deeper discussions regarding these characters. And not just Ivy but I have a list of characters that I would love to read more stuff about in more of this vein.

    Keep up the good work and remember my advice about blocking the haters

  5. #1940
    Mighty Member WontonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    "People" cannot make fans interpret anything they don't want to interpret. I am just saying that the article is correct in that those stories refer to each other and attempt at having a continuous arc for Ivy, which could be missed when read out of order (I'm not condescending to you over it, I read them out of order too, like Gail Simone's Batgirl Annual #2 before Duane S's last Birds of Prey arc featuring Pamela, which was why I didn't instantly make the connection in Simone's story regarding Pam's betrayal of the Birds and Babs).

    I am not forcing conclusions on you, I was just saying you could have missed something like I did. But it's fine if you didn't miss anything and want to stick to your conclusions regardless. Sorry, maybe I should have been clearer on that part.
    YOU are the one that is assuming that I read anything out of order or that I want to stick to my conclusions, You did that.

    I just didn't come to comic books in 2015 and I'm not a novice when it comes to Poison Ivy. Some of those stories I've read before. I was just saying that when I read them back then, I had a different opinion than what the author had. So I'm going to re-read them, to see them with a different perspective. If anything that is NOT sticking to my conclusions.

  6. #1941
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    This is one of the best (probably the best one IMO) article on Poison Ivy by two good friends.
    http://www.nerdspan.com/poison-ivy-a...ife-and-death/
    They also put a lot of time and effort for this. They also have an excellent analysis of Greg Rucka's Lazarus series (an incredible book).
    A friend is also planning a book (yes, an actual book) about everything Ivy related in terms of merchandise etc. I will post updates if you want. I think it will be incredible for Ivy to get a detailed guide on her merch. Great work from an awesome #PoisonIvyLeague member.

    And many more bits and pieces. I'll try to keep you updated.
    I.e this just came in while I'm writing this
    Despite the solicits not mentioning Ivy in BoP, she will be back in the book.

  7. #1942
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    Quote Originally Posted by WontonGirl View Post
    YOU are the one that is assuming that I read anything out of order or that I want to stick to my conclusions, You did that.

    I just didn't come to comic books in 2015 and I'm not a novice when it comes to Poison Ivy. Some of those stories I've read before. I was just saying that when I read them back then, I had a different opinion than what the author had. So I'm going to re-read them, to see them with a different perspective. If anything that is NOT sticking to my conclusions.
    Then why reply "how about let fans draw their own conclusions" to my original post? (a sentiment I don't necessarily disagree with btw) And the first word in that post of mine was "If", meaning I wasn't assuming you read it out of order, just explained the possibility of why those themes may not have come across as clearly in case you did not read those stories chronologically.
    Last edited by Confuzzled; 12-09-2017 at 12:55 PM.

  8. #1943
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosenrose View Post
    This is one of the best (probably the best one IMO) article on Poison Ivy by two good friends.
    http://www.nerdspan.com/poison-ivy-a...ife-and-death/
    They also put a lot of time and effort for this. They also have an excellent analysis of Greg Rucka's Lazarus series (an incredible book).
    A friend is also planning a book (yes, an actual book) about everything Ivy related in terms of merchandise etc. I will post updates if you want. I think it will be incredible for Ivy to get a detailed guide on her merch. Great work from an awesome #PoisonIvyLeague member.

    And many more bits and pieces. I'll try to keep you updated.
    I.e this just came in while I'm writing this
    Despite the solicits not mentioning Ivy in BoP, she will be back in the book.
    That's a great article indeed. I had linked it here a while back too. That opening paragraph couldn't be more perfect in summing up the potent and age old appeal of Ivy's character. The fact that she encompasses so many fascinating subjects though does explain why she means so many different things to so many different people, which is why her fanbase can be so divided at times when they have disagreements over what the "Ideal Ivy" should be like.

  9. #1944
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Just recently picked up a copy of Joker's Asylum: Poison Ivy (one-shot) from back in 2008 for $1.00 in the back-issue bins at a comic book shop.



    Guillem March's artwork was nice, but the story by J.T. Krul was . . . meh.

  10. #1945
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Just recently picked up a copy of Joker's Asylum: Poison Ivy (one-shot) from back in 2008 for $1.00 in the back-issue bins at a comic book shop.



    Guillem March's artwork was nice, but the story by J.T. Krul was . . . meh.
    Lol @ this plot. It was as if an Ivy story were assigned to a writer who just knew the basics about her, remembered that Uma Thurman played both her and Kill Bill's The Bride on the big screen, and then shamelessly and lazily took the plot of The Bride keeping a list of her victims/crossing them out after killing them, and used it for Ivy. It's stories such as these that made me bored of Ivy being murderous and "pure evil".

    That art though was indeed gorgeous and the intro to Guillem March's Poison Ivy. Whenever a comic or comic book movie related article wants to include an image of Ivy from the comics, odds are incredibly high that it is one of March's. He was just that good (though not a personal fave when it comes to Ivy artists, but that's probably due to the fact that I'm not as big a fan of green skinned Ivy which was the mandate at the time).
    Last edited by Confuzzled; 12-09-2017 at 04:16 PM.

  11. #1946
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    The commercial for the second half of the season of Gotham has the first sneak peek of Peyton List as Ivy towards the end.


  12. #1947
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    Quote Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet View Post
    The commercial for the second half of the season of Gotham has the first sneak peek of Peyton List as Ivy towards the end.

    I can't tell if her hair's red or if it's just the lighting .

    Oh and now when she's aged even more she kisses Bruce. Is he even 18 yet? I feel like that's kind of problematic given there's even more of an age difference now.

  13. #1948
    Amazing Member darkeyes's Avatar
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    I like it, at least Ivy is showing some confidence now. I look forward to her becoming a more central character now.

  14. #1949
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    If Disney buys Fox, will this show even exist anymore?

  15. #1950
    Mighty Member WontonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck135 View Post
    If Disney buys Fox, will this show even exist anymore?
    Why would it not?

    Are you talking about what they are talking about in this article?

    https://www.thewrap.com/fox-broadcas...n-gary-newman/
    Last edited by WontonGirl; 12-09-2017 at 08:41 PM.

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