Poison Ivy Appreciation 2018

[Frontier]

I personally like the Harley & Ivy dynamic — I just wish it wasn’t the only proper dynamic Ivy had Harley has other dynamics like the Squad. That’s why I liked the Ivy mini, so she could *shine* on her own.

I like the Harley & Ivy dynamic, but I prefer it where they're both equals rather then Ivy being Harley's sidekick, which I understand some people take issue with.

But I also agree that I'd like to see Ivy strike out and interact with more characters as well .

[Barbatos666]

They'll never be equals, one is much more popular and her fanbase sees Ivy as a Harley support character so ofcourse DC will pander to them.

[Confuzzled]

There is an alternate universe out there where Paul Dini does not create Harley Quinn but instead his first and foremost pet is still Poison Ivy and Timm and he consistently work for 26 years giving her mass exposure as a standalone. You know Ivy was his initial favorite before Harley started gaining popularity post Harley and Ivy and he realized he could gain more influence and respect if he milked the popularity of his own creation rather than an already established one.

But it's an interesting scenario to consider if Dini never created Harley or the Harley & Ivy dynamic. How popular would Ivy have become if she received Dini's undiluted focus and priority? Would the Catwoman fans be angry at Ivy being the new "It" girl and replacing their favorite? How would her characterization have been received as opposed to her previous ones? How would she have evolved? Or would she have devolved by being the primary object of fanboy fascination?

[Vanguard-01]

They'll never be equals, one is much more popular and her fanbase sees Ivy as a Harley support character so ofcourse DC will pander to them.

Wouldn't be too sure. Harley's popularity may already be waning. Her sales aren't as great as they used to be and the creative team that helped make her popular are leaving soon.

Won't say it's gonna happen or even that it'll happen soon, but it COULD happen.

[Confuzzled]

Wouldn't be too sure. Harley's popularity may already be waning. Her sales aren't as great as they used to be and the creative team that helped make her popular are leaving soon.

Won't say it's gonna happen or even that it'll happen soon, but it COULD happen.

If given anywhere close to the massive push that Harley receives, Ivy can easily be as popular if not more, especially with women and people who are more environment conscious. Heck, that mini that received minimal promotion managed consistent sales of 22-23K per issue with a relatively unknown writer, higher than minis featuring more exposed characters and bigger name writers like Len Wein's Swamp Thing and Marv Wolfman's Raven.

[Barbatos666]

Wouldn't be too sure. Harley's popularity may already be waning. Her sales aren't as great as they used to be and the creative team that helped make her popular are leaving soon.

Won't say it's gonna happen or even that it'll happen soon, but it COULD happen.

She just got an animated movie and will undoubtedly be a part of the upcoming Suicide Squad animated film, she's a big part of the current season of Telltale Batman and now this animated series. Plus all the chatter of GCS, SS2 and the Harley/Joker film.
She doesn't need to sell big numbers in comics at this point and they can always relaunch with a big creative team at the time of another movie, I dont see Harley mania ending anytime soon.

[Darkspellmaster]

If given anywhere close to the massive push that Harley receives, Ivy can easily be as popular if not more, especially with women and people who are more environment conscious. Heck, that mini that received minimal promotion managed consistent sales of 22-23K per issue with a relatively unknown writer, higher than minis featuring more exposed characters and bigger name writers like Len Wein's Swamp Thing and Marv Wolfman's Raven.

Yeah, apparently though, what seems sort of messed up is that she kind of puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her. Or at least other outlets are pointing out that she was let go by DC because of one of the bad guys in the mini.

The problem with Pam is that, unlike Harley who, if you go back to the most well known form of her, the animated series one, under all the makeup she's still a good person at heart. Pam on the other hand, the more well known form of her, even though she does it for the environment, and Greg did a smash job on her in Batman , her most well known personality comes from the animated series, and in that case, she's more of a straight up villain then someone that has been corrupted. She dates Harvey just to kill him to get what she wants, even if it is still for a good cause.

Honestly I would rather have her be a bad guy since there's not a lot of pure female villains for Bats to deal with anymore. Catwoman and Harley are both the top two most well known and and both are playing hero right now, so you do need someone that could be bad naturally. Pam fits that.

[rosenrose]

Yeah, apparently though, what seems sort of messed up is that she kind of puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her. Or at least other outlets are pointing out that she was let go by DC because of one of the bad guys in the mini.

The problem with Pam is that, unlike Harley who, if you go back to the most well known form of her, the animated series one, under all the makeup she's still a good person at heart. Pam on the other hand, the more well known form of her, even though she does it for the environment, and Greg did a smash job on her in Batman , her most well known personality comes from the animated series, and in that case, she's more of a straight up villain then someone that has been corrupted. She dates Harvey just to kill him to get what she wants, even if it is still for a good cause.

Honestly I would rather have her be a bad guy since there's not a lot of pure female villains for Bats to deal with anymore. Catwoman and Harley are both the top two most well known and and both are playing hero right now, so you do need someone that could be bad naturally. Pam fits that.

Hi I'm the author of said article. Never in the article it is mentioned or even implied that "puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her" and so far I haven't read someone reporting on it (and I pay a lot of attention to articles referencing my own).

Historically Poison Ivy is a more "good person" than Harley. Especially in comics since we are discussing comics right now. Harley has been consistent at targeting kids (Suicide Squad) and infants (Jokers NML plan-also one of Harley's first apperances).

Currently Poison Ivy is in fact less villainous than Catwoman since Catwoman has been sentenced to death while Ivy is working at Barbara Gordon's company (BBOP). And throughout New52 till now, Ivy has always been on the edge of the law but not crossing it and this is why shes still free and not in Arkham, death row or Suicide Squad.

Comics evolve. So do characters. DC has 1628 female villains. Most of them Bat related. Why not ask from DC use some of them instead of erasing Ivy's character progress that took decades. This way we are all happy.

Unless there is a reason you specifically want Poison Ivy to turn back into a villain instead of using the rest 1627 female villains which at least for me makes no sense.

Nobody is taking away your female villain. 3 villains out of 1627 going neutral/heroic is 0.18438844499078058%.
Instead you should worry about male Batman and Superman villains who constantly get heroic upgrades in canon or AU.

[mathew101281]

Yeah, apparently though, what seems sort of messed up is that she kind of puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her. Or at least other outlets are pointing out that she was let go by DC because of one of the bad guys in the mini

Honestly I would rather have her be a bad guy since there's not a lot of pure female villains for Bats to deal with anymore. Catwoman and Harley are both the top two most well known and and both are playing hero right now, so you do need someone that could be bad naturally. Pam fits that.

I agree, she doesn’t need a face turn. Superhero comics have a real issue with that. It’s why their really aren’t any female villains in the top ten villains of all time lists. Their seem to be this underlying pressure to reform (or atleast turn into an antihero) any female villain that gets any moniker of success.

[buck135]

Unless there is a reason you specifically want Poison Ivy to turn back into a villain instead of using the rest 1627 female villains which at least for me makes no sense.

I personally love Ivy as a villain since she is the greatest threat to Batman/Gotham City (spores, vines, deadly/hypnotic kiss, etc). She has been written well over the past 50+ years, however I feel there is so much untapped potential.

[WontonGirl]

Yeah, apparently though, what seems sort of messed up is that she kind of puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her. Or at least other outlets are pointing out that she was let go by DC because of one of the bad guys in the mini.

The problem with Pam is that, unlike Harley who, if you go back to the most well known form of her, the animated series one, under all the makeup she's still a good person at heart. Pam on the other hand, the more well known form of her, even though she does it for the environment, and Greg did a smash job on her in Batman , her most well known personality comes from the animated series, and in that case, she's more of a straight up villain then someone that has been corrupted. She dates Harvey just to kill him to get what she wants, even if it is still for a good cause.

Honestly I would rather have her be a bad guy since there's not a lot of pure female villains for Bats to deal with anymore. Catwoman and Harley are both the top two most well known and and both are playing hero right now, so you do need someone that could be bad naturally. Pam fits that.

But he's never had too many female villains period. But Poison was definitely created to be one of Batman's enemies. And she is fantastic at it.

But there are those who love her as a rogue and those that love her as a hero and those that love her as anti-villain and those that love her as the anti-hero. I mean, which Ivy will satisfy most of her fans?

[WontonGirl]

I personally love Ivy as a villain since she is the greatest threat to Batman/Gotham City (spores, vines, deadly/hypnotic kiss, etc). She has been written well over the past 50+ years, however I feel there is so much untapped potential.

You get the right writer, Poison Ivy could tear Gotham City apart! And look good doing it! She is indeed one of the most strongest rogues in DC Comics and yet.....

[Confuzzled]

But they won't make her literally rip Gotham apart as it clashes with the more "grounded" and less fantastical approach they go for Gotham denizens. Ivy's nature goddess like powers already make her stick out like a (green) thumb in the Bat mythos, so they will always come up with clumsy ways to nerf her. I think as a traditional villain, she has run her course and hit a ceiling. It's time to let her move on beyond that. Plants perish if you stunt their growth.

And really, it's about time Batman finally got some new female villains (who aren't male derivatives like the two recent Ventriloquists).

[WontonGirl]

Currently Poison Ivy is in fact less villainous than Catwoman since Catwoman has been sentenced to death while Ivy is working at Barbara Gordon's company (BBOP).

Um, Catwoman is NOT sentenced to death, her sentence was eventually changed to life in prison AND she didn't even do the crime that put her in jail in the first place. She was taking the hit for her friend Holly.

Hopefully, by the time Poison Ivy shows up in Batman Issue #41, her name will be cleared.

[rosenrose]

Um, Catwoman is NOT sentenced to death, her sentence was eventually changed to life in prison AND she didn't even do the crime that put her in jail in the first place. She was taking the hit for her friend Holly.

Hopefully, by the time Poison Ivy shows up in Batman Issue #41, her name will be cleared.

Yes, I know. But my response was about Ivy's current status. She is not in Arkham or prison but working at Batgirs company, knowing the identities of all the birds as well as Ollies. Batman is working with her in Snyders ASB etc etc. I have an academic style article coming up with her current status and timeline with information and quotes straight from the writers themselves and why her journey points towards heroism. I'll post it here once its out and you are interested.