Poison Ivy Appreciation 2018

[buck135]

This is a darn shame that this man had to Tweet this out, again!

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/940959722836054016

Good grief people are goofy. When will people appreciate each other's differences as well as their similarities? Is it hard to just stick to what we like and make polite suggestions when we disagree?

[WontonGirl]

Good grief people are goofy. When will people appreciate each other's differences as well as their similarities? Is it hard to just stick to what we like and make polite suggestions when we disagree?

Apparently it's not. It seems like what is going on is that there are 2 groups; the ones that like Ivy as a villain and the ones that like Ivy as a Hero.

But the problem seems to be that you got people attacking and harassing other Ivy fans because they think differently OR you also got other fans that are coming in defense of King as well, and he is not tolerating both. You got the some harnessers sending threats and rape threats, etc. And that should not be tolerated under no circumstances. And so rightly so, he is coming in defense of them and that was good.

But you got the Hero fans that keep sending Tom articles and harassing him because they want him to write Ivy as a Hero. And the thing is, some of the Hero fans that are getting harassed, I don't think they realize they are harassing or bothering Tom when they do that.

It's a mess! I didn't know it was this bad. Sending hate tweets and rape tweets, that needs to be taken up with Twitter.

[buck135]

Apparently it's not. It seems like what is going on is that there are 2 groups; the ones that like Ivy as a villain and the ones that like Ivy as a Hero.

But the problem seems to be that you got people attacking and harassing other Ivy fans because they think differently OR you also got other fans that are coming in defense of King as well, and he is not tolerating both. You got the some harnessers sending threats and rape threats, etc. And that should not be tolerated under no circumstances. And so rightly so, he is coming in defense of them and that was good.

But you got the Hero fans that keep sending Tom articles and harassing him because they want him to write Ivy as a Hero. And the thing is, some of the Hero fans that are getting harassed, I don't think they realize they are harassing or bothering Tom when they do that.

It's a mess! I didn't know it was this bad. Sending hate tweets and rape tweets, that needs to be taken up with Twitter.

That behavior is sickening. I feel for anyone who is on the receiving end of threats or violence of any kind. This and a couple of other boards are my only means of social media (if you want to call it that). What can I say, I'm old. It's naive of me to wish that most of social media would all go away since it seems to bring heartache to so many.

As I've said here before, I prefer Ivy as a villain because she could obliterate Batman, Bane or all of Gotham for that matter if she wanted. Riddler, Penguin or Joker can't do that. I've also always been drawn to sirens and beautiful redheads. I've seen comments that Ivy doesn't belong in Gotham because there isn't much green there. What do they think is under all of that concrete?

I love that my favorite character is a woman. I identify with her despite being male. Growing up, most of the shows I watched didn't have strong female characters. This is why the success of the Wonder Woman film is so important. In summary as long as Ivy is written as the brilliant (and devastatingly dangerous) doctor that she has evolved into, I'm going to be pleased.

[Frontier]

That behavior is sickening. I feel for anyone who is on the receiving end of threats or violence of any kind. This and a couple of other boards are my only means of social media (if you want to call it that). What can I say, I'm old. It's naive of me to wish that most of it would all go away since it seems to bring heartache to so many.

As I've said here before, I prefer Ivy as a villain because she could obliterate Batman, Bane or all of Gotham for that matter if she wanted. Riddler, Penguin or Joker can't do that. I've also always been drawn to sirens and beautiful redheads. I've seen comments that Ivy doesn't belong in Gotham because there isn't much green there. What do they think is under all of that concrete?

I love that my favorite character is a woman. I identify with her despite being male. Growing up, most of the shows I watched didn't have strong female characters. This is why the success of Wonder Woman is so important. In summary as long as Ivy is written as the brilliant (and devastatingly dangerous) doctor that she has evolved into, I'm going to be pleased.

I think you summed it all up perfectly .

[Assam]

I know there's a small but vocal group who, while they'd normally be okay, if not happy, with Ivy not being shown in the most positive light, are furious because of what King has done before and after. Namely, the prior character ruination of Holly Robinson (One of DC's earliest prominent lesbians) and the following confirmation (Possible reaffirmation? I don't know) of Talia being bisexual before having her act as a villain and roadblock for Bruce and Selina, and combined with Ivy's portrayal, its lead them to believe that King is lesbaphobic.

On a lighter and more positive note, Ivy got to team up with Cass. It may have happened in a really crappy comic, but that instantly makes Ivy's coolness factor increase tenfold.

[Frontier]

I know there's a small but vocal group who, while they'd normally be okay, if not happy, with Ivy not being shown in the most positive light, are furious because of what King has done before and after. Namely, the prior character ruination of Holly Robinson (One of DC's earliest prominent lesbians) and the following confirmation (Possible reaffirmation? I don't know) of Talia being bisexual before having her act as a villain and roadblock for Bruce and Selina, and combined with Ivy's portrayal, its lead them to believe that King is lesbaphobic.

Huh. Kind of reminds me of the though process that Brian Michael Bendis is uncomfortable with gay people because, even when they're in his book, he never writes them in relationships.

(Although I don't think Talia was really a villain in her appearance and I'm one of those who wasn't really bothered by Ivy's portrayal in The War of Jokes and Riddles. Also Catwoman is now canonically bisexual and she's the female lead of the book).

[buck135]

I think you summed it all up perfectly .

Thanks Frontier.

[Confuzzled]

Apparently it's not. It seems like what is going on is that there are 2 groups; the ones that like Ivy as a villain and the ones that like Ivy as a Hero.

It's not that simple. There is an extra sect of "Alt Right"/gatekeeping trolls who among having many other issues, have a weird Madonna/Whore complex when it comes to female characters in comics, and women characters who don't fit into the morally right like Ivy are firmly labelled in the latter category by them, so oppose anything and everything that puts her in a more complex or positive light.

These are the people who are particularly vicious towards any kind of change in comics that they perceive as progressive or "SJW". From what I've observed, they also don't target male Ivy fans but only the women fans on Twitter, by sending them pics of their privates (ew!) and making death/rape threats.

These extremists should not be grouped under "fans who like Ivy as a villain". There are folks on this forum and this thread who prefer Ivy as a villain but are very civil and respectful towards those who like a more anti-hero or heroic take on her so it's unfair to them that these creeps are painted with the same brush as them.

[WontonGirl]

Again, I think that the harassers and those sending threats of any kind should be reported to Twitter and have that handled there. Nobody should be doing that to another person on Social Media. Those people are NOT fans, so I don't lump them in any fan group at all!


Now, as far as the fans are concerned. It's not complicated at all. Their are fans who sees her as a Villain and enjoy seeing her in that mode. They enjoy those stories and that's that. Then there are those that see Ivy as a Hero or as an Anti-Hero. They enjoy seeing those stories and what to see more stories of "hero Ivy" and I get that.

The source of conflict seems to be that if you don't write Ivy as a hero or anti-hero, then SOME will go in. Because again, in THEIR eyes, Ivy is not a Villain so they don't think she should be written as one. Whereas what Ivy did in WJR didn't bother a lot of fans or fans of Ivy if they view her as a villain because that kind of behavior was par for the course for Ivy.

[WontonGirl]

I know there's a small but vocal group who, while they'd normally be okay, if not happy, with Ivy not being shown in the most positive light, are furious because of what King has done before and after. Namely, the prior character ruination of Holly Robinson (One of DC's earliest prominent lesbians) and the following confirmation (Possible reaffirmation? I don't know) of Talia being bisexual before having her act as a villain and roadblock for Bruce and Selina, and combined with Ivy's portrayal, its lead them to believe that King is lesbaphobic.

On a lighter and more positive note, Ivy got to team up with Cass. It may have happened in a really crappy comic, but that instantly makes Ivy's coolness factor increase tenfold.

But again, this is part of the issue or source of conflict; how people feel about Ivy. There are those who feel she is a hero or anti-hero SO if a writer doesn't show her as that, then they go in.

[rosenrose]

Tom King wrote a tweet about not harassing Ivy fans. And now I come here and see that the discussion is “why fans who like Ivy as hero are harassers”.
Well no. Wonton you mention me sending one article in a very polite manner to King. Janin even liked it and signal boosted it. This is not harassment. This is not even criticism. King (or any other writer is not influenced by an article or a few comments). I think this is obvious at this point. Sending threats is harassment. Telling people that they will get beaten if they show up at cons is harassment. Sending d1ck picks is harassment. I’d like for once to see the other side take some kind of responsibility for this situation. Yesterday I was mourning the loss of a dear friend and had to deal with crap in my inbox and had to explain how I’m not a harasser to a bunch of accounts who portray me as Hitler. It’s not comparable. You can’t compare an article with a d1ck pick.
So for once, listen to King and report this kind of behavior. If you like him as a writer and respect him as a person, listen to him and be civil and polite. You are not helping his work or “villain Ivy” if half of this “sides” posts are mental health mockery, alt right/nazi memes and gamer gate tactics.

[WontonGirl]

Tom King wrote a tweet about not harassing Ivy fans. And now I come here and see that the discussion is “why fans who like Ivy as hero are harassers”.
Well no. Wonton you mention me sending one article in a very polite manner to King. Janin even liked it and signal boosted it. This is not harassment. This is not even criticism. King (or any other writer is not influenced by an article or a few comments). I think this is obvious at this point. Sending threats is harassment. Telling people that they will get beaten if they show up at cons is harassment. Sending d1ck picks is harassment. I’d like for once to see the other side take some kind of responsibility for this situation. Yesterday I was mourning the loss of a dear friend and had to deal with crap in my inbox and had to explain how I’m not a harasser to a bunch of accounts who portray me as Hitler. It’s not comparable. You can’t compare an article with a d1ck pick.
So for once, listen to King and report this kind of behavior. If you like him as a writer and respect him as a person, listen to him and be civil and polite. You are not helping his work or “villain Ivy” if half of this “sides” posts are mental health mockery, alt right/nazi memes and gamer gate tactics.

First off, sorry for the loss of your friend

Second, if I see something, I will report it. There is no doubt about that. But again, the EXTREME threats, that needs to be reported to Twitter. I don't know who you are on Facebook or Twitter so I don't see the more personal extreme things that are happening to you and I am sorry that it is happening to you. But as I told you before just last week, REPORT THEM AND BLOCK THEM. I told YOU that personally. You don't have to take that mess. Irregardless of where it's coming from. I told you that Rose, you don't have to take that.

Now as far as the other side taking responsibility. I am not a part of that world. Again, if I see something, I will report it BUT until YOU mentioned that this type of stuff was going on, I didn't know this was existing within the Ivy fandom. I just got into the social media aspect of these comics like maybe within the past year. Before that, I was on FB and Twitter pages of superhero TV shows that I watched and for whatever the latest Superhero movie that was coming out. I tend to follow Wonder Woman and Catwoman related things in mainstream media, academia and pop culture and that's was pretty much it. I didn't know there was a division in how Ivy fans saw her.

I'm sorry the harassment is happening.

[rosenrose]

Just to be clear: I'm not trying to create negativity. But look at this: If you go to ie DC Superhero Girls Youtube page in the shorts that feature Ivy as a hero and a friend to the girls, you will see people bullying little girls in the comment section because they want her as a hero. I did a small research and just at one single video there were over 20 comments with people mocking 7-10 year old girls. Characters evolve and change. People are ok with Luthor, Clayface, Lobo, Frost and many more having huge heroic development arcs but the instant Ivy appears everyone is screaming that she should remain a villain. And then comes harassment and lies.
And it's frustrating and ridiculous at the same time. Because these are paper people. Not real. But I am real. Wanting to see a paper character as a hero is not the same as threatening and mocking people for wanting this. I don't understand why or how these two are even comparable.

Villain Ivy fans: nobody is taking away your character. Don't worry. If there are sides in this (which I'd prefer they weren't). DC is on your side. King is on your side. Many more writers are on your side. So just leave a tiny little space for the ones who disagree and try to respect this disagreement. It's really not that hard.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

A clip from Gotham by Gaslight featuring Ivy. I should warn there are SPOILERS.

[Confuzzled]

A clip from Gotham by Gaslight featuring Ivy. I should warn there are SPOILERS.

That's not even as spoilerish as the previous trailer

Interesting to see Pam portrayed as a sex worker here. Usually that's Selina's thing. Also, this is definitely not the Poison Ivy from the Gotham by Gaslight universe from the comics: