Poison Ivy Appreciation 2018

[Confuzzled]

Yes, I know. But my response was about Ivy's current status. She is not in Arkham or prison but working at Batgirs company, knowing the identities of all the birds as well as Ollies. Batman is working with her in Snyders ASB etc etc. I have an academic style article coming up with her current status and timeline with information and quotes straight from the writers themselves and why her journey points towards heroism. I'll post it here once its out and you are interested.

Wow that article does sound amazing. Would love to hear the writers' perspective and your well-researched insight on Ivy's character journey and development. Please post it here once it's out. #hyped

[Frontier]

Historically Poison Ivy is a more "good person" than Harley. Especially in comics since we are discussing comics right now. Harley has been consistent at targeting kids (Suicide Squad) and infants (Jokers NML plan-also one of Harley's first apperances).

And those moments were seen as too much even for Harley.

Ivy's initial appearances had her committing numerous crimes and in one issue killing a bunch of rich people with her kiss (and not for any ecological reason, as I recall). I really don't think the argument that she's more "good" then Harley really tracks.

Currently Poison Ivy is in fact less villainous than Catwoman since Catwoman has been sentenced to death while Ivy is working at Barbara Gordon's company (BBOP). And throughout New52 till now, Ivy has always been on the edge of the law but not crossing it and this is why shes still free and not in Arkham, death row or Suicide Squad.

As has already been pointed out, Catwoman was on death row for a crime she didn't commit, so I'm not sure how that makes her more villainous then Ivy, especially when Selina also joined the Birds around the same time Ivy did.

Now, I don't really buy this development with Selina and Ivy in that book, and I don't think they should be on the team, but that's a whole other thing.

This "edge of the law" status quo seems more Rebirth then New 52, where Ivy was still much more of a villain.

But they won't make her literally rip Gotham apart as it clashes with the more "grounded" and less fantastical approach they go for Gotham denizens. Ivy's nature goddess like powers already make her stick out like a (green) thumb in the Bat mythos, so they will always come up with clumsy ways to nerf her. I think as a traditional villain, she has run her course and hit a ceiling. It's time to let her move on beyond that. Plants perish if you stunt their growth.

I think as a villain Ivy's too versatile to ever really hit a ceiling, but that's me.

And really, it's about time Batman finally got some new female villains (who aren't male derivatives like the two recent Ventriloquists).

It's hard enough for new male villains to take off. The last time I think the Bat-Books tried to spin off some new female villains we got Mother and Batgirl's one-off villains (none of whom have appeared since the first Burnside run).

[rosenrose]

And those moments were seen as too much even for Harley.

Ivy's initial appearances had her committing numerous crimes and in one issue killing a bunch of rich people with her kiss (and not for any ecological reason, as I recall). I really don't think the argument that she's more "good" then Harley really tracks.


As has already been pointed out, Catwoman was on death row for a crime she didn't commit, so I'm not sure how that makes her more villainous then Ivy, especially when Selina also joined the Birds around the same time Ivy did.

Now, I don't really buy this development with Selina and Ivy in that book, and I don't think they should be on the team, but that's a whole other thing.

This "edge of the law" status quo seems more Rebirth then New 52, where Ivy was still much more of a villain.


I think as a villain Ivy's too versatile to ever really hit a ceiling, but that's me.


It's hard enough for new male villains to take off. The last time I think the Bat-Books tried to spin off some new female villains we got Mother and Batgirl's one-off villains (none of whom have appeared since the first Burnside run).

I think I've answered most of the points in my previous answer. As I said, characters evolve and change. Even the definition of evil changes drastically. For the people who like mass murdering ecoterrorist there are plenty of books available as ie Injustice. For the rest I think you'll have to wait for the article.
Have a nice Thanksgiving.

[Frontier]

I think I've answered most of the points in my previous answer. As I said, characters evolve and change. Even the definition of evil changes drastically. For the people who like mass murdering ecoterrorist there are plenty of books available as ie Injustice. For the rest I think you'll have to wait for the article.
Have a nice Thanksgiving.

Same to you .

[WontonGirl]

Yes, I know. But my response was about Ivy's current status. She is not in Arkham or prison but working at Batgirs company, knowing the identities of all the birds as well as Ollies. Batman is working with her in Snyders ASB etc etc. I have an academic style article coming up with her current status and timeline with information and quotes straight from the writers themselves and why her journey points towards heroism. I'll post it here once its out and you are interested.

Always interested in academic articles about comic heroes! Good job!

[Darkspellmaster]

[QUOTE=rosenrose;3256027]Hi I'm the author of said article. Never in the article it is mentioned or even implied that "puts the blame on being let go from DC because of the Mini and her changing the story when they changed editors on her" and so far I haven't read someone reporting on it (and I pay a lot of attention to articles referencing my own). [/quote ]

Hi, and thank you for responding. I'm on my phone so this won't be as clean as I want it to be, so apologies in advance.

Your first price was not the one I read. Rather it was the article covering it on The Mary Sue. The article there, from the way it's written and the comments section seem to imply that Ms. Chu was limited based on her sales here and that DC and Eddie caused this.

https://www.themarysue.com/amy-chu-poison-ivy-berganza/

Given that article my take away was that the change to the story caused DC to cancel the story.

Historically Poison Ivy is a more "good person" than Harley. Especially in comics since we are discussing comics right now. Harley has been consistent at targeting kids (Suicide Squad) and infants (Jokers NML plan-also one of Harley's first apperances).

While you are right that Harley does have a darker comics history, the more well known forms, T.V. show, the arkham games and the movie. All three have her being more a villain than Harley. Heck, an entire movie based on Harley having to stop her from using a dirty bomb. So of the two more known version of Ivy has never been shown to truly go straight, unlike Harley.

[Quote] Currently Poison Ivy is in fact less villainous than Catwoman since Catwoman has been sentenced to death while Ivy is working at Barbara Gordon's company (BBOP). And throughout New52 till now, Ivy has always been on the edge of the law but not crossing it and this is why shes still free and not in Arkham, death row or Suicide Squad. [/qoute]

Catwoman has a long history of being a more heroic character, Ivy for her part has always been a villain. Not to mention, as others have said, Catwoman is taking the fall for Holly. When Ivy chose in the story to go good she in turn murders the guy blackmailing her, making her just as bad as the guy blackmailing her.

Yes right now she is good, but how long before they need her to be evil to counter Selina's more heroic character they are trying to set up.

Comics evolve. So do characters. DC has 1628 female villains. Most of them Bat related. Why not ask from DC use some of them instead of erasing Ivy's character progress that took decades. This way we are all happy.

I would love for that to happen. But let's be honest, how many of those characters are as popular or as marketable as Ivy? Baby doll is one I can think of, but DC doesn't have her in the comics. And who's the more interesting character. Ivy, or White Rabbit, a catwoman clone. DC sees she sells as a bad guy.

[Quote] Unless there is a reason you specifically want Poison Ivy to turn back into a villain instead of using the rest 1627 female villains which at least for me makes no sense.[quote]

See above. I think Ivy works as a villain. Just always felt she had a more selfish drive than say Catwoman.

Nobody is taking away your female villain. 3 villains out of 1627 going neutral/heroic is 0.18438844499078058%.
Instead you should worry about male Batman and Superman villains who constantly get heroic upgrades in canon or AU.

I've got no problem with her going heroic, but they need to replace her with some one good. We have a tendency to act like women can't be as evil as their counter parts. And I have, and the thing is that there are more male villains then female villains, so you have a greater variety of guys you can get away with.

Again you keep saying that number but how many are just one offs or ones that don't stick. So they stick with what they know.

[Darkspellmaster]

Yes, I know. But my response was about Ivy's current status. She is not in Arkham or prison but working at Batgirs company, knowing the identities of all the birds as well as Ollies. Batman is working with her in Snyders ASB etc etc. I have an academic style article coming up with her current status and timeline with information and quotes straight from the writers themselves and why her journey points towards heroism. I'll post it here once its out and you are interested.

Sounds interesting. I will take a look at it. 😊

[PwrdOn]

Yeah Reigns has no mic skills, but his point is kind of valid. Stop worrying about whether Ivy should be good or evil and just write her in whatever way feels most natural.

[WontonGirl]

Yeah Reigns has no mic skills, but his point is kind of valid. Stop worrying about whether Ivy should be good or evil and just write her in whatever way feels most natural.

This is a good point. Ivy can be whatever I guess. She can be a hero for one thing but be a villain for something else.

At the end of the day, people are going to like Ivy for how they like her. The ones that like her as a villain will most likely always like her like that. The ones that like her as a "good" guy will most likely always like her like that. Even if DC comics made a permanent decision as to what Ivy will be, the other side will always say "well she wasn't always written like that".

[Samm]

http://community.comicbookresources....omicdom/page10

Go and vote for Ivy (or any female really). I'm surprised Ivy, Harley, Barbara and Batwoman haven't been mentioned yet...

[Confuzzled]

http://community.comicbookresources....omicdom/page10

Go and vote for Ivy (or any female really). I'm surprised Ivy, Harley, Barbara and Batwoman haven't been mentioned yet...

Voted. Thank you for notifying us.

[Confuzzled]

It's hard enough for new male villains to take off. The last time I think the Bat-Books tried to spin off some new female villains we got Mother and Batgirl's one-off villains (none of whom have appeared since the first Burnside run).

I don't think that's necessarily true about new villains. The Court of Owls, Professor Pyg and the Dollmaker have managed to stay afloat thanks to other media appearances this early in their lifetime. Obviously it will take time to catch up to the classics who have been around for 75+ years, but it's a solid start. Not everyone can take off like Bane and when someone tries to force fit a new villain to pull a Bane, you end up with less than desirable results like Hush and Thomas Wayne Jr.

I think Mother has potential if executed better in the future. The Anchoress is another compelling new villain who I think could become a mainstay if used consistently with quality stories. That's all it takes. I think Dan Slott's Jane Doe had potential too but then they messed her up. Still can be "rebooted" in an interesting way.

[Confuzzled]

Damn, the Injustice 2 comic got super soapy and dramatic with Harley and Ivy's relationship



Also, between Injustice and DC Super Hero Girls, someone really likes Pam rocking the Elsa braid!

[Frontier]

Damn, the Injustice 2 comic got super soapy and dramatic with Harley and Ivy's relationship



Also, between Injustice and DC Super Hero Girls, someone really likes Pam rocking the Elsa side braid!

This is a stark difference from their interactions in the actual game. I wonder what happened...

[Confuzzled]

This is a stark difference from their interactions in the actual game. I wonder what happened...

They are still on opposite sides. Ivy is siding with Ra's and his apocalyptic schemes but just for one night, she asks Harley whether they could put their stark differences aside due to their immense and enduring love for each other. She leaves Harley at daybreak.