Poison Ivy Appreciation 2018

[Confuzzled]

It's the publisher who decided to kill of ivy I'm not sure why the response to this is to hate on Harley. Harley is a very popular character and her relationship with Ivy is part of what made Harley who she is, killing of Ivy is not a tool to develop Harley it's a tool to regress her, you can see this by how she has gone back to her old costume. I think this an injustice primarily to Ivy but also to Harley as well.

I don't think Harley going back to her classic costume is really "regression" (and with the Birds of Prey movie having a female director and writer, maybe Margot Robbie will wear it in the DCEU as it's more modest than her Suicide Squad outfit).

Also, I think she will become more heroic than villainous after this event. Dan Didio claimed her to be DC's "Fourth Pillar" after the Trinity, was heavily rumored to have told King to make her one of the protagonists in HiC, so I think she's good. OTOH, I suspect Didio doesn't care much for Ivy as he told fans on Twitter that she "dilutes" sales (which I assume are Harley's sales) when used in an independent capacity and probably told TK to kill off Ivy in HiC (despite King's protestations and "taking one for the team").

Just speculations re Didio but I honestly believe he was the biggest reason Ivy was repeatedly reduced to be Harley's sidekick over the last few years despite many writers using Ivy independently in strong, captivating stories.

[Green Ghost]

I don't think Harley going back to her classic costume is really "regression" (and with the Birds of Prey movie having a female director and writer, maybe Margot Robbie will wear it in the DCEU as it's more modest than her Suicide Squad outfit).

Also, I think she will become more heroic than villainous after this event. Dan Didio claimed her to be DC's "Fourth Pillar" after the Trinity, was heavily rumored to have told King to make her one of the protagonists in HiC, so I think she's good. OTOH, I suspect Didio doesn't care much for Ivy as he told fans on Twitter that she "dilutes" sales (which I assume are Harley's sales) when used in an independent capacity and probably told TK to kill off Ivy in HiC (despite King's protestations and "taking one for the team").

Just speculations re Didio but I honestly believe he was the biggest reason Ivy was repeatedly reduced to be Harley's sidekick over the last few years despite many writers using Ivy independently in strong, captivating stories.

The way Ivy was treated despise her popularity, there has to be someone high at DC who doesn’t like her and most signs point to Didio (even though King shouldn’t be let off the hook, because he agreed to do it and got to some lenght to get Ivy into Sanctaury).
I didn’t know about the “dilutes” comment, but it’s another sign that he doesn’t like Ivy. And where does he got it from?
- Her mini had a soldout #1 and only minimal drops unusual for a mini. Later issues still outsold titles like Deathstroke, Green Arrow, Green Lantern Corps, Swamp Thing, Raven, Titans and more titles who got followups and Rebirth titles.
- Why put her on so many covers if she hurts sales? She was on multiple variant covers of Batman #50 while not even being in it.
- Her merchandise sells and she often is one of the first to get statues in a new line.
- The Sirens concept is still popular
- Harley and Ivy is also a very popular concept
- She is one of the most popular costumes at cons and on Halloween
- Many artist said that she is one of the most requested comissions at cons
But most of you here know this already.

I am just wondering, why DC wouldn’t bank on this? She seems to be good enough for merchandise and covers, but not her own stories?!
It seems like they just want a sexy pinup model and not a multi layered character and that HiC cover sadly kinda proves that point.

[kjn]

I don't think Harley going back to her classic costume is really "regression" (and with the Birds of Prey movie having a female director and writer, maybe Margot Robbie will wear it in the DCEU as it's more modest than her Suicide Squad outfit).

I'm not sure about that, especially since Margot Robbie seems to have been intended Birds of Prey as an R-rated film from the beginning. But we'll have to see.

Also, I think she will become more heroic than villainous after this event. Dan Didio claimed her to be DC's "Fourth Pillar" after the Trinity, was heavily rumored to have told King to make her one of the protagonists in HiC, so I think she's good. OTOH, I suspect Didio doesn't care much for Ivy as he told fans on Twitter that she "dilutes" sales (which I assume are Harley's sales) when used in an independent capacity and probably told TK to kill off Ivy in HiC (despite King's protestations and "taking one for the team").

Just speculations re Didio but I honestly believe he was the biggest reason Ivy was repeatedly reduced to be Harley's sidekick over the last few years despite many writers using Ivy independently in strong, captivating stories.

For all that Didio-bashing is practically a sacrament here, I'm not sure he's all to blame here. Or at least not to a greater extent than he is to blame or praise for just about everything from DC. And do you have a reference for Didio's claim about diluting sales? I couldn't find something like that on Twitter.

I do think there are several reasons for why DC has a hard time working with Ivy, apart from any subjective biases. One is that Poison Ivy is tricky to write as a protagonist, arguably as tricky as Wonder Woman, because their backgrounds and their values and their view of the world is so different from the rest of us (and Wonder Woman suffers from perpetual reimaginings on how she acts). I also wrote the following over in another thread:

I think that, while true, isn't all of the story. Like most organisations, DC has institutional biases and ideas on how the world around them operate. Their creators also have the same. Among those things are preconceptions and wishes on who their fans and readers are, and how they look and behave. This means they are more likely to listen to certain groups of fans and less likely to listen and understand other groups of fans, or listen on certain channels. They are more likely to listen to white straight dudes, because most of them are white straight dudes.

But the Poison Ivy fandom is simply too dissimilar to the movers and shakers at DC to understand, so they simply don't hear it until the fandom gets so loud that they have to listen anyway. And then the fans might be told that they are too "strident". It's a vicious cycle, and the only ones who can break it is DC themselves.

[lucius121]

I don't think Harley going back to her classic costume is really "regression" (and with the Birds of Prey movie having a female director and writer, maybe Margot Robbie will wear it in the DCEU as it's more modest than her Suicide Squad outfit).

Also, I think she will become more heroic than villainous after this event. Dan Didio claimed her to be DC's "Fourth Pillar" after the Trinity, was heavily rumored to have told King to make her one of the protagonists in HiC, so I think she's good. OTOH, I suspect Didio doesn't care much for Ivy as he told fans on Twitter that she "dilutes" sales (which I assume are Harley's sales) when used in an independent capacity and probably told TK to kill off Ivy in HiC (despite King's protestations and "taking one for the team").

Just speculations re Didio but I honestly believe he was the biggest reason Ivy was repeatedly reduced to be Harley's sidekick over the last few years despite many writers using Ivy independently in strong, captivating stories.

Just a point about the fourth pillar stuff, that was Jim Lee not Didio https://www.cbr.com/jim-lee-dubs-har...c-comics-line/ . Also Harley going back to an old costume is clear regression since she is going backwards quite literally.

I’m not sure how much Didio had to do with reducing Ivy either I mean the first thing he did when got back full control from Johns was break them up by killing poor Ivy off.

[skyvolt2000]

The way Ivy was treated despise her popularity, there has to be someone high at DC who doesn’t like her and most signs point to Didio (even though King shouldn’t be let off the hook, because he agreed to do it and got to some lenght to get Ivy into Sanctaury).
I didn’t know about the “dilutes” comment, but it’s another sign that he doesn’t like Ivy. And where does he got it from?
- Her mini had a soldout #1 and only minimal drops unusual for a mini. Later issues still outsold titles like Deathstroke, Green Arrow, Green Lantern Corps, Swamp Thing, Raven, Titans and more titles who got followups and Rebirth titles.
- Why put her on so many covers if she hurts sales? She was on multiple variant covers of Batman #50 while not even being in it.
- Her merchandise sells and she often is one of the first to get statues in a new line.
- The Sirens concept is still popular
- Harley and Ivy is also a very popular concept
- She is one of the most popular costumes at cons and on Halloween
- Many artist said that she is one of the most requested comissions at cons
But most of you here know this already.

I am just wondering, why DC wouldn’t bank on this? She seems to be good enough for merchandise and covers, but not her own stories?!
It seems like they just want a sexy pinup model and not a multi layered character and that HiC cover sadly kinda proves that point.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard this-I would be a billionaire.

Sad thing is YOU are CORRECT. Everything you said is correct-the character pulls her WEIGHT way more than some others I could name at DC and Marvel (including one with a movie).

I mentioned this in the HIC thread and thought to mention it here.

Aren't we all forgetting about something in the Batman universe when it comes to DEATH?

What does Damian's grandfather OWN??? Jason Todd & Riddler took baths in it once.

LAZARUS PIT.

Tom King is doing Batman. What is stopping a follow up arc of Harley taking Ivy's body to that pit? In other words we could see that story King wanted about PTS be told in Batman.

[Confuzzled]

I'm not sure about that, especially since Margot Robbie seems to have been intended Birds of Prey as an R-rated film from the beginning. But we'll have to see.

But she did say Harley would wear different costumes.

For all that Didio-bashing is practically a sacrament here, I'm not sure he's all to blame here. Or at least not to a greater extent than he is to blame or praise for just about everything from DC. And do you have a reference for Didio's claim about diluting sales? I couldn't find something like that on Twitter.

It's not sacrament. As Green Ghost said, most signs point to him being the DC higher-up reluctant to separate Ivy from Harley. The "dilutes sales" comment was originally from this Twitter moment story which isn't accessible to me right now: https://twitter.com/ivygirl851/statu...99421603815424

I think he told the fan in question that she should just read Harley's book if she wanted more Ivy.

[kjn]

Another warm-up image from Stjepan Sejic:

poison_ivy.jpg

(Larger size at the link.)

[Korath]

Because it's too beautiful to not be shared :

[Celgress]

Because it's too beautiful to not be shared :

Indeed it is. Thanks for sharing.