Poison Ivy Appreciation 2018

[Atlanta96]

Yeah I watched Suicide Squad. I also am aware of its mixed reception and as is WB. I'm aware they've said the tone of their movies will be changing in future and I doubt they'll be doing the same stuff that many criticised again

Oh my bad. I guess when I got exposed to these characters through those tv shows and movies that made them interesting characters without reducing them to spank material I should have known they weren't for me. Don't I have egg on my face

Harley Quinn is the breakout character of Suicide Squad and one of the few consistently praised aspects of the film. If SS sent a message it was "Don't make a sh*tty movie with a rushed script and convoluted message, but Harley Quinn was spot on". No one but a few puritans on the internet took issue with her sexuality, if anything it helped her character catch on.

And here you go again describing female characters as spank material. Do you have any idea how sexist you sound when you say that? It's one step away from "dirty sl*ts". You come off very badly on both sides of the aisle right now.

The vast majority of Ivy, Catwoman and Harley appearances in movies and TV have been sexualized to some extent, so I don't know why it bothers you now. Do I need to show you some pictures of Michelle Pfeiffer and Anne Hathaway in their Catwoman suits?

[WontonGirl]

I don't think the sexualization of these characters will be an issue. There are stories online right now about how actor Live Schreiber brought his 8 year old son to Comic con dressed as Harley Quinn:

http://honey.nine.com.au/2017/07/24/...r-harley-quinn

I think kids just like what they like. They don't see sexuality with these characters until they get older.

[Atlanta96]

I don't think the sexualization of these characters will be an issue. There are stories online right now about how actor Live Schreiber brought his 8 year old son to Comic con dressed as Harley Quinn:

http://honey.nine.com.au/2017/07/24/...r-harley-quinn

I think kids just like what they like. They don't see sexuality with these characters until they get older.

Jesus Christ...

I wish parents wouldn't let their kids do this stuff and make it public, it could traumatize them when they're older.

[Assam]

Jesus Christ...

I wish parents wouldn't let their kids do this stuff and make it public, it could traumatize them when they're older.

Huh? What are you talking about?

Little kids wanting a relationship like Harley's with Joker, trying to be sexy like Harley and/or looking to Harley as a role-model are all things to get worried about. This is just a kid wearing a costume of a character he likes as far as we know. Nothing wrong with that.

[Atlanta96]

Huh? What are you talking about?

Little kids wanting a relationship like Harley's with Joker, trying to be sexy like Harley and/or looking to Harley as a role-model are all things to get worried about. This is just a kid wearing a costume of a character he likes as far as we know. Nothing wrong with that.

When he's in high school or college and someone digs up pictures of him dressed as a girl at age 9, and I'd relentlessly mocked and teased for it, then there will be a problem. I'm embarrassed enough by my childhood pictures and I'm not dressed like Harley Quinn in any of them.

[Assam]

When he's in high school or college and someone digs up pictures of him dressed as a girl at age 9, and I'd relentlessly mocked and teased for it, then there will be a problem. I'm embarrassed enough by my childhood pictures and I'm not dressed like Harley Quinn in any of them.

People who'd make fun of a guy for dressing up as a girl, cosplay or otherwise, at any age are idiotic assholes who should just be ignored. I still thought I was completely male when I was a kid and I had no problem dressing up in girls clothes. I didn't post pictures of myself on the internet but hey, I didn't even start using social media till I started high school.

[Atlanta96]

People who'd make fun of a guy for dressing up as a girl, cosplay or otherwise, at any age are idiotic assholes who should just be ignored. I still thought I was completely male when I was a kid and I had no problem dressing up in girls clothes. I didn't post pictures of myself on the internet but I didn't even start using social media till I started high school.

They are assholes but they exist. Parents should be more responsible about what they let their kids do publicly. In private, fine. No big deal. But don't plaster it all over the Internet.

[Assam]

They are assholes but they exist. Parents should be more responsible about what they let their kids do publicly. In private, fine. No big deal. But don't plaster it all over the Internet.

Still thinking you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Plus, why are you placing "blame" on the parents? Far as I can tell, they just went to ComicCon, and other people took pictures posted about it. You really want to tell an 8-year old kid they can't cosplay as a character they like because some idiots who natural selection has somehow allowed to survive might make fun of him?

[CryNotWolf]

Yeah I watched Suicide Squad. I also am aware of its mixed reception and as is WB. I'm aware they've said the tone of their movies will be changing in future and I doubt they'll be doing the same stuff that many criticised again

Oh my bad. I guess when I got exposed to these characters through those tv shows and movies that made them interesting characters without reducing them to spank material I should have known they weren't for me. Don't I have egg on my face

It always cracks me up when some goon comes along and tries to equate a character being sexualized to "being reduced to spank material". It's such an overdramatic and quite frankly immature position to hold. If Catwoman has proven anything it's that you can be both sexy AND interesting, even in BTAS, a show aimed at children. Obviously there's levels to it and it can and has been overdone, there's a fine line to strike to be sure, but when you're talking about someone like Catwoman, her powerful and confident sexuality is pretty much iconic and a definite part of her character, and denying that would be doing the her a disservice. Feminine sexuality isn't some boogeyman to be avoided.

[Assam]

Feminine sexuality isn't some boogeyman to be avoided.

Exactly! Demonizing feminine sexuality is something that desperately needs to stop, as all it does is poison the minds and outlooks of the future.

Back when I was involved in game journalism, I wrote an article about how Bayonetta is one of the best female role-models in video games, and one of the reasons I gave was because of how confident she was, both in her self as a person, and in her sexuality, showing that it's something to be proud of and not something to be slut-shamed for.

All 3 of the Sirens have sexuality as part of their characters, but at their best, they're still 3-dimensional strong characters (Even if I personally don't care for Harley) and it isn't something that should be taken away from them.

[Agent Z]

Harley Quinn is the breakout character of Suicide Squad and one of the few consistently praised aspects of the film. If SS sent a message it was "Don't make a sh*tty movie with a rushed script and convoluted message,

And one of the ways to avoid doing that is not sexualising women.

but Harley Quinn was spot on". No one but a few puritans on the internet took issue with her sexuality, if anything it helped her character catch on.

Okay, free advice, if you want to be taken seriously in a debate about sexy vs sexualisation, maybe don’t resort to to strawman arguments like calling people “puritans”.

And here you go again describing female characters as spank material. Do you have any idea how sexist you sound when you say that? It's one step away from "dirty sl*ts". You come off very badly on both sides of the aisle right now.

I described a particular image of female characters as spank material. Please do not twist my words.

The vast majority of Ivy, Catwoman and Harley appearances in movies and TV have been sexualized to some extent, so I don't know why it bothers you now. Do I need to show you some pictures of Michelle Pfeiffer and Anne Hathaway in their Catwoman suits?

Who says it’s only bothering me now? Hathaway’s outfit far less sexualised than Pfeiffere’s and neither is as ridiculous as the image I was talking about.

[Agent Z]

It always cracks me up when some goon comes along and tries to equate a character being sexualized to "being reduced to spank material". It's such an overdramatic and quite frankly immature position to hold. If Catwoman has proven anything it's that you can be both sexy AND interesting, even in BTAS, a show aimed at children. Obviously there's levels to it and it can and has been overdone, there's a fine line to strike to be sure, but when you're talking about someone like Catwoman, her powerful and confident sexuality is pretty much iconic and a definite part of her character, and denying that would be doing the her a disservice. Feminine sexuality isn't some boogeyman to be avoided.

It always cracks me up how often people rush to the "you're just afraid of female sexuality" defense when ti comes to these debates.

[Agent Z]

Exactly! Demonizing feminine sexuality is something that desperately needs to stop, as all it does is poison the minds and outlooks of the future.

Back when I was involved in game journalism, I wrote an article about how Bayonetta is one of the best female role-models in video games, and one of the reasons I gave was because of how confident she was, both in her self as a person, and in her sexuality, showing that it's something to be proud of and not something to be slut-shamed for.

All 3 of the Sirens have sexuality as part of their characters, but at their best, they're still 3-dimensional strong characters (Even if I personally don't care for Harley) and it isn't something that should be taken away from them.

I do agree that female sexuality should not be demonized. I just don't want it to be emphasied at the detriment of every other aspect of the character. I also cannot help but notice that the majority of the media's idea of what strong, confident female sexuality looks the same and is designed to appeal to the male gaze. You mentioned Bayonetta and while I do like the character, I also wonder if the message could have been gotten across without her having a move that involves her stripping naked.

This image

http://community.comicbookresources....9&d=1500831614
seems less like female sexuality being defended and rather it being packaged for horny teens to jerk off to. What exactly about this screams strong, 3-dimensional characters?

[Assam]

I do agree that female sexuality should not be demonized. I just don't want it to be emphasied at the detriment of every other aspect of the character. I also cannot help but notice that the majority of the media's idea of what strong, confident female sexuality looks the same and is designed to appeal to the male gaze. You mentioned Bayonetta and while I do like the character, I also wonder if the message could have been gotten across without her having a move that involves her stripping naked.

I absolutely agree that there is a fine line to walk, and in media, depictions do often end up screwing up. In the case of this discussion, yes, pushing sexuality over ALL other traits for the Sirens would be bad, but it shouldn't be excluded either. In regards to the male gaze, an excerpt from my article: "In 1987, Film Studies and Women’s Studies Prof. Jackie Stacey published an article entitled “Desperately Seeking Difference: Desire Between Women in Narrative Cinema." A major point made in this article is that the homosexual pleasures of viewers are generally ignored." While it's true that certain characters are presented in a way with the male gaze in mind, characters of any gender can be found sexy by both men AND women.

In regards to Bayo, a separate excerpt from my article: "In the book, The Ways of Seeing, by John Berger, he says this:

"To be naked is to be oneself. To be nude is to be seen naked by others, and yet not recognized for oneself. A naked body has to be seen as an object in order to become a nude. Nakedness reveals itself. Nudity is placed on display. To be naked is to be without disguise." Bayonetta fights like a dancer. Dancing is a form of self-expression. And taking off her clothes is part of that self-expression."

This image

http://community.comicbookresources....9&d=1500831614
seems less like female sexuality being defended and rather it being packaged for horny teens to jerk off to. What exactly about this screams strong, 3-dimensional characters?

Uh, is that from a published comic or cheesecakey fanart? Because the world of fanart is one where the sexualization of characters is most definitely equal opportunity. Some, like current Aquaman artist Stjepan Šejić, have even done some pretty gorgeous stuff.

sejic.jpg

sejic 2.jpg

Unnecessary and out of place sexualization of characters is definitely a problem in the comic industry,especially with teen characters, but with some, again, it's just part of who they are.

[MzTropiqWonder]

I don't think the sexualization of these characters will be an issue. There are stories online right now about how actor Live Schreiber brought his 8 year old son to Comic con dressed as Harley Quinn:



http://honey.nine.com.au/2017/07/24/...r-harley-quinn



I think kids just like what they like. They don't see sexuality with these characters until they get older.

Jesus Christ...

I wish parents wouldn't let their kids do this stuff and make it public, it could traumatize them when they're older.

This might be a taboo topic but
1. as an Australian Early Childcare Educator, I see girls role play male heros all the time and no one bats an eye... A girl dressing up as a guy does not equal to her having issues or turning gay later on in life and that should apply to boys. Why is it ok for girls to roleplay male role models but it's not ok for boys to roleplay female role models?? Adult should not shame, look down or disrespect boys roleplaying females. In fact boys should be encouraged to admire the female role models they admire, and if it's through roleplaying so be it. Who knows maybe it will create a much more balanced and equal playing field for men and women in the future compared to what we have now and in the past.

2. That little boy's mother is Australian, Naomi Watts, and aussies in Hollywood are a tight knit. Maybe Naomi Watts and Margot Robbie are close and therefore Naomi's son wanted to support Margot. And if that is the case good on him..