Poison Ivy Appreciation 2018

[blohan]

But for Ivy the anti-hero angle makes more sense then just a straight up villain. Her intentions are good, she wants to save the enviroment, which would be good for all humanity. She'll still kill for her cause, but I think/hope the psycho-"kill all humans"-Ivy is gone. So we should get a more interesting characterization of Ivy in the future.

Why though? In her first appearances she was just a criminal with a plant motif. Nothing more. I think it's way more interesting if she was a serial killer whose m.o. is using plant based poisons. And the original poster is right, the anti-hero thing happens only with females. It seems sexist. Her saving plants really works only in very few instances, it worked great on The Animated Series but in the comics it's ridiculous.

[blohan]

I must be one of the only people who actually enjoyed Batman and Robin unironically. Granted even as a 12 year old it wasn't hard to tell that the movie wasn't high art or anything like that, but I did genuinely enjoy it at the time and didn't find out until much later that everyone apparently hated it. Obviously, Poison Ivy was the highlight of the movie, I've always liked Uma Thurman and she seemed to have a lot of fun chewing scenery and embracing the over the top campiness which you would never see these days. It really did feel like she jumped straight out of a comic book, they even managed to give her a picture perfect costume design though I'll never understand why they changed it halfway through. The really odd thing about this movie is that ended up becoming quite memorable and quotable, despite the fact that it never really developed any kind of cult following and isn't regarded as being "so bad it's good." Just try googling "what killed the dinosaurs" and see what the autocomplete suggests....

Her Poison Ivy was really great. The costume was beyond glorious. I think they changed it because they didn't want to make it look like a costume? When she first appears it is a costume party, so it makes sense but using it later on wouldn't. Her costume in the comics doesn't make much sense either actually, but they solved it by just changing her clothes because the other clothes are just her day wear, she's a bit crazy but less costumey.

[Confuzzled]

Why though? In her first appearances she was just a criminal with a plant motif. Nothing more. I think it's way more interesting if she was a serial killer whose m.o. is using plant based poisons. And the original poster is right, the anti-hero thing happens only with females.

Her saving plants really works only in very few instances, it worked great on The Animated Series but in the comics it's ridiculous.

What? Environmental issues, including global warming, have been pressing topics since the 90's! Ivy brings up a very relevant point.

[Confuzzled]

The November Comics Preview catalogue "Previews" apparently offers a sneak peek at Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death #1. The cover is even featured on the back of the catalogue:

[Confuzzled]

CraveOnline unveiled a preview of the DC Collectibles Tarot Card set by Sara Richard, which depicts DC heroes and villains as different cards from the tarot deck. Pamela is "The Empress".

The Empress of the tarot deck is said to have dominion over growing crops and other plant life. Poison Ivy fills that role in the DC Universe, but not always for the benefit of mankind.

Logical fit. Check out some of the other cards here.

[t hedge coke]

Why though? In her first appearances she was just a criminal with a plant motif. Nothing more. I think it's way more interesting if she was a serial killer whose m.o. is using plant based poisons. And the original poster is right, the anti-hero thing happens only with females. It seems sexist. Her saving plants really works only in very few instances, it worked great on The Animated Series but in the comics it's ridiculous.

The shift comes in most strongly with Gaiman, doesn't it? Even though she's still a horrible killer, she's mentally unfit, so to speak.

I think, in general, I prefer her a plant-themed killer and villain more than any kind of "misled do-gooder," but Cast Shadows and other comics have made good use of her being traumatized and genuinely confused in her illness. (Cast Shadows is so so good..)

[PwrdOn]

The shift comes in most strongly with Gaiman, doesn't it? Even though she's still a horrible killer, she's mentally unfit, so to speak.

I think, in general, I prefer her a plant-themed killer and villain more than any kind of "misled do-gooder," but Cast Shadows and other comics have made good use of her being traumatized and genuinely confused in her illness. (Cast Shadows is so so good..)

I don't think that Ivy is necessarily unhinged, she just has extreme views and is willing to go to any lengths to accomplish her goals. Even her murderous streak isn't necessarily indicative of insanity, since she just priorities plant life over human life which is somewhat justified under the selfish gene concept.

[retical]

The shift comes in most strongly with Gaiman, doesn't it? Even though she's still a horrible killer, she's mentally unfit, so to speak.

I think, in general, I prefer her a plant-themed killer and villain more than any kind of "misled do-gooder," but Cast Shadows and other comics have made good use of her being traumatized and genuinely confused in her illness. (Cast Shadows is so so good..)

I prefer her as an anti-villain/anti-hero. Plant-themed killer is very boring and makes no sense unless the story is comedic or parody. I hope the new book focuses more on her as a do-gooder and less as a plant themed serial killer.

[t hedge coke]

I prefer her as an anti-villain/anti-hero. Plant-themed killer is very boring and makes no sense unless the story is comedic or parody. I hope the new book focuses more on her as a do-gooder and less as a plant themed serial killer.

The problem I have with that angle, primarily, is that a) I'm not sympathetic enough to be "forgiving" or lenient with her actions, and b) too many of her actions don't adhere for it to make much sense (depending on how much is still in continuity). But, there's an audience for that, so I'm happy with them having comics that appeal. I'm not a big enough Ivy fan to complain, really.

[Agent Z]

The problem I have with that angle, primarily, is that a) I'm not sympathetic enough to be "forgiving" or lenient with her actions, and b) too many of her actions don't adhere for it to make much sense (depending on how much is still in continuity). But, there's an audience for that, so I'm happy with them having comics that appeal. I'm not a big enough Ivy fan to complain, really.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

[t hedge coke]

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

The extent of her villainy, taken as a whole, doesn't really align with "do-gooder who just believes plants are more important." Her sadism and control issues, at the very least aren't defensible under "plants are more important," any more than me taking scissors and slowly snipping away parts of a flower because *@^* that flower would be. There is too much of a personal satisfaction in causing pain or subjugating to simply be means to an end. (Depending, again, on how much of her past is in continuity now.)

[Confuzzled]

Hipster Punk Ivy by Dan Mora


Ivy and the Bat by Gary Frank

[Confuzzled]

The extent of her villainy, taken as a whole, doesn't really align with "do-gooder who just believes plants are more important." Her sadism and control issues, at the very least aren't defensible under "plants are more important," any more than me taking scissors and slowly snipping away parts of a flower because *@^* that flower would be. There is too much of a personal satisfaction in causing pain or subjugating to simply be means to an end. (Depending, again, on how much of her past is in continuity now.)

I don't know which story you are talking about but I have a sneaking suspicion it is that godawful Stalked by Paul Dini. It didn't make sense for Ivy to be a soulless sadist then (especially after the whole Robinson Park orphans saga) and it doesn't make sense now. Anyways, the New 52 has consistently portrayed her on the sympathetic side so this is just a natural progression for her character.

[t hedge coke]

I don't know which story you are talking about but I have a sneaking suspicion it is that godawful Stalked by Paul Dini. It didn't make sense for Ivy to be a soulless sadist then (especially after the whole Robinson Park orphans saga) and it doesn't make sense now. Anyways, the New 52 has consistently portrayed her on the sympathetic side so this is just a natural progression for her character.

I wasn't. I'm not even sure I know where that one is. I'm afraid, I'm thinking of Bronze Age stuff, but also Knightfall era stories, Hush, Black Orchid issues, Cast Shadows, Gotham Sirens or whatever it was called, etc, though there's certainly a range, and she's not a sadist, usually, in the sense or to the level of, say, the Joker. But she's not a nice person doing things because they are "necessary," is what I mean, she is getting pleasure, and does exhibit some compulsive behavior.

But, I think with the DCnU, she has been much more in control, though internment in Arkham still stands. So it probably is, if none of that old stuff counts, more reasonable now. (I still find it less interesting, and, really, even less sympathetic than if she's legitimately and practically mentally ill and traumatized.)

[Confuzzled]

I wasn't. I'm not even sure I know where that one is. I'm afraid, I'm thinking of Bronze Age stuff, but also Knightfall era stories, Hush, Black Orchid issues, Cast Shadows, Gotham Sirens or whatever it was called, etc, though there's certainly a range, and she's not a sadist, usually, in the sense or to the level of, say, the Joker. But she's not a nice person doing things because they are "necessary," is what I mean, she is getting pleasure, and does exhibit some compulsive behavior.

But, I think with the DCnU, she has been much more in control, though internment in Arkham still stands. So it probably is, if none of that old stuff counts, more reasonable now. (I still find it less interesting, and, really, even less sympathetic than if she's legitimately and practically mentally ill and traumatized.)

Pre-Nu52, there were lots of stories where she was committing petty crimes (and controlling Superman and Selina like in Hush) just for the fun of it. And I think the Riddler insinuated she had a thing for Catwoman, which... makes more sense than her falling for Harley. In Black Orchid she was just this wild force of scary female fury. I wouldn't call her taking pleasure in doing bad things any more than I would say a typhoon takes pleasure in the damage it brings about. She was shown to be capable of sympathetic feelings for human beings even there though. Also, just because she took pleasure in theft and smaller crimes doesn't mean she cannot be an anti-heroine. Selina is a fine example of that. You were right about the lack of control thing and she is more put together in the New 52. The Gail Simone Batgirl annual however made a point about how the seasons affected her psyche, trying to give an explanation for her inconsistent depictions through the years, I guess. No idea whether that will be carried over or acknowledged in the mini.