Poison Ivy Appreciation 2018

[Agent Z]

Yeah, agreed. This is actually why I dislike the Harley/Ivy pairing, it tends to reduce her to that a lot.



Ivy's pretty much Batman's most powerful villain. Like maybe Freeze and Clayface are up there too but Batman has more counters for them and her ability to control minds without even needing to go make a chemical or something I'd say gives her the edge.

I think that she gets the anti-hero treatment too much as well as being lumped in with Catwoman and Harley a lot for no real reason other than that they're the female Batman rogues that all holds her back from being a serious villain. And sometimes even when she is a villain sometimes she's just treated as not necessarily unhinged but just kinda dumb.

I think Ivy's non-Harley interactions tend to have more cheesecake. At least with Harley she just acts like she actually cares for her, whereas in other cases she's the more generic femme fatale.

As for the anti hero treatment, I'm more or less okay with it. Maybe, it will mean writers can come up with, you know, new villains.

[Agent Z]

The weird thing is Dini used to write the heck out of Ivy in the animated series and the older comics set in the DCAU. It was when he started getting high on his Harley obsession (and when she really started to break out) was when he stopped bothering to develop Ivy in a way that served her own character and instead began to write her in a way that served Harley's character. You can still see the after-effects of this in the way Pam is treated in Harley's ongoing.

But there is a plus side. The army of Harley fanatics are pretty fond of Ivy. Hopefully they check out her mini and really help boost its sales.



Among the Rogues, she is definitely the most powerful in terms of powers. Which is why I always find it dumb that she gets dispatched so easily when up against members of the Bat-Family. Meh, I think she is too appealing and rich a character to be reduced to just being a villain who sporadically appears in Bat-books anyway. She is Magneto-level in terms of complexities so I definitely feel she can carry her own solo just like him, provided she gets the right creative team (thankfully by the looks of it, Chu and Mann seem to fit the bill so far).

Electro from Spider-Man has a similar problem. He is way too powerful for Spider-Man yet gets beaten with ludicrous ease. Of course, the Spider-Man writers have the excuse that Electro is not very bright (no pun intended) whereas Ivy is supposed to be brilliant as well as powerful.

[t hedge coke]

I think Ivy's non-Harley interactions tend to have more cheesecake.

Well, there is that time they had a bet on who could kiss all the men in Arkham first. And refused to wear more than a t-shirt and panties the whole time, to keep it interesting.

[LoneNecromancer]

I think Ivy's non-Harley interactions tend to have more cheesecake. At least with Harley she just acts like she actually cares for her, whereas in other cases she's the more generic femme fatale.

To be honest, I just don't see why Ivy has a reason to hang out with Harley other than them just getting lumped together because they're both girls, or because Ivy was written to serve someone else's pet character. I mean, sure, I'd expect Ivy to feel bad for her being taken advantage of by the Joker considering her own past with Woodrue (if that's still canon), but I don't see why she'd have more interest in her than that.

[Agent Z]

To be honest, I just don't see why Ivy has a reason to hang out with Harley other than them just getting lumped together because they're both girls, or because Ivy was written to serve someone else's pet character. I mean, sure, I'd expect Ivy to feel bad for her being taken advantage of by the Joker considering her own past with Woodrue (if that's still canon), but I don't see why she'd have more interest in her than that.

Well, there's the fact that they were both used and abused by men they trusted.

[Confuzzled]

I also feel Ivy's protective maternal instincts kick into gear when she's around Harley. It is an essential character trait that Pam has displayed towards vulnerable and helpless beings like her various plants and the orphans during No Man's Land.

It's for that reason why I'm not into the Harley/Ivy shipping. Ivy is compassionate enough to know Harley is incredibly vulnerable and requires help. Unlike the Joker, I don't see Ivy exploiting her, sexually or otherwise.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

Dr. Pamela Isley. This woman has a Ph.D. Let's see some more stories focusing on Pamela's field of expertise. Let's see the "Dana Scully" in Pamela really come to fruition. Is that possible?

[t hedge coke]

Ivy is compassionate enough to know Harley is incredibly vulnerable and requires help. Unlike the Joker, I don't see Ivy exploiting her, sexually or otherwise.

Sexually manipulating people and exploiting them is a big part of Ivy's existence as a character.

They're a "cute" enough couple, treated lightly (with murders), but by basic assumption would be that Ivy's exploiting Harley just as much as anyone, even if she's trying not to. Her methods of supporting Harley or trying to bring Harley out have been pretty invasive/dangerous/manipulative in general.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

Sexually manipulating people and exploiting them is a big part of Ivy's existence as a character.

They're a "cute" enough couple, treated lightly (with murders), but by basic assumption would be that Ivy's exploiting Harley just as much as anyone, even if she's trying not to. Her methods of supporting Harley or trying to bring Harley out have been pretty invasive/dangerous/manipulative in general.

Also one of the reasons I grew tired of the Ivy character. Coke, my idea doesn't have much of a chance to take root.

[PwrdOn]

She's not THAT frail lol. And many depictions show her as being a pretty competent physical threat. Not Bane level obviously but the same as some other male Bat rogues like Two-Face and Scarecrow. Of course there will be double standards in how her physical capability is viewed because she is a woman who is not a bruiser type.

I generally like to see Ivy as thinking combat as beneath her, instead relying on her charm and wits to deal with her opponents, and if that doesn't work she usually has some hired muscle on hand to do the dirty work. And given that her foes will likely be evil corporations or corrupt politicians, who can't really be defeated with mad kung fu skillz anyway, it can definitely work to her advantage in telling a more interesting story.

[t hedge coke]

Also one of the reasons I grew tired of the Ivy character. Coke, my idea doesn't have much of a chance to take root.

It can happen. Gaiman, Nocenti, and Swierczynski have writtern her as educated and knowledgable, but yeah, generally her being knowledgable in her field, or educated at all, ends up being "she made a magic plant again" and it's more about how they can draw leaves coming off cleavage again.

[retical]

It can happen. Gaiman, Nocenti, and Swierczynski have writtern her as educated and knowledgable, but yeah, generally her being knowledgable in her field, or educated at all, ends up being "she made a magic plant again" and it's more about how they can draw leaves coming off cleavage again.

Gaiman and Nocenti and Simone really get the character. Connor and Palmiotti's version is a total trainwreck but I guess they don't really care for good characterisation but more for cheap eye candy/sexy lesbian stuff because it sells. Their point is clearly sales and not quality or deep characters and I can't blame them for that (also a lot of readers want to "relax" at sexy Harley and Ivy pics). But I read that the new writer (Chu) is into science and will use people from the scientific community that she knows in Ivy's character so I expect a lot of depth. But of course, who know, amirite?

[Agent Z]

Gaiman and Nocenti and Simone really get the character. Connor and Palmiotti's version is a total trainwreck but I guess they don't really care for good characterisation but more for cheap eye candy/sexy lesbian stuff because it sells. Their point is clearly sales and not quality or deep characters and I can't blame them for that (also a lot of readers want to "relax" at sexy Harley and Ivy pics). But I read that the new writer (Chu) is into science and will use people from the scientific community that she knows in Ivy's character so I expect a lot of depth. But of course, who know, amirite?

Will Ivy still have her "Green" powers in Chu's book?

[Agent Z]

Also one of the reasons I grew tired of the Ivy character. Coke, my idea doesn't have much of a chance to take root.

I see what you did there.

[Confuzzled]

Lol Agent Z.

I generally like to see Ivy as thinking combat as beneath her, instead relying on her charm and wits to deal with her opponents, and if that doesn't work she usually has some hired muscle on hand to do the dirty work. And given that her foes will likely be evil corporations or corrupt politicians, who can't really be defeated with mad kung fu skillz anyway, it can definitely work to her advantage in telling a more interesting story.

Fair enough. But I'm biased towards the physically competent Ivy because I was introduced to her through BTAS of course, where she didn't shy from taking on people by chasing them lithely with just her little arm crossbow as the offensive weapon. Also, there was this.