Wonder Woman: Future's End #1 Preview

[Vanguard-01]

Sorry, she's Hercules with breasts and a side of compassion.

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. Compassion is clearly more than a side dish with her. She's demonstrated more classic Wonder Woman moments in her own book than in any other book in which she appears. Yeah, even Soule's book. Azz's book, right now, is THE book to which you go if you want to see Diana demonstrating her compassion. She's done some nice things in SM/WW, sure. But not quite the same level. JL? Do I even have to say it?

[Lax]

(I admit I'm being reductive and not completely fair to Soule--but one selective reading deserves another!)

It's no more selective than someone saying Soule's Wonder Woman has "no character, no personality" is "just going-through-the-motion" and "feels like she's there, but she's not really there."

It's subjectivity on steroids.

[Silvanus]

Sorry, she's Hercules with breasts and a side of compassion.

Well, what you lack in support for your "argument," you make up for in...something. I guess.

What's the point of saying she's "Hercules with breasts" if not to imply that she's muscle-headed, hypermasculine (behind the breasts), and defined by being the child of Zeus? And that point start to evaporate once you acknowledge her compassion--even though you try to dismiss it as "a side." By this point in Azz's run, she's defined by her actions and her impact on others, like bringing out the best in Hera--and that is sure not attributable to being a child of Zeus or another Hercules.

It's no more selective than someone saying Soule's Wonder Woman has "no character, no personality" is "just going-through-the-motion" and "feels like she's there, but she's not really there."

It's subjectivity on steroids.

Yeah--no offense to my allies who share my preference for Azz's WW over Soule's, but I agree that those statements are hyperbolic. I wouldn't argue that Soule's Wonder Woman has no personality, but I do find that her characterization is less distinctive and less intriguing that that of Azz's Wonder Woman. For example, when Soule's WW lectures her Amazon sister's students about becoming self-reliant, her heart is certainly in the right place, but the speech itself is a little banal, like a boilerplate commencement address. By contrast, when Azz's WW talks to Hera about self-reliance, the speech has context and therefore it has depth. (And then she went off to wrestle Moon bear and show her some loving submission in true, odd Wonder Woman style.)

It seems to me that each author's WW emphasizes a different side of the original WW. Soule (whether by choice or, more likely, by the circucmstance of being given a book about WW's relationship to SM) emphasizes the side that organized so much of her life in "Man's World" around her man (Steve then, Superman now). Azz's emphasizes the side that had gusto and sometimes a wicked sense of humor but also a streak of weirdness, as she would say strange things about "loving submission" and the like; and I like that side better. I actually think there's a chance that in the Futures End tie-in Soule will emphasize the side I like. We'll see.

[Razor Tiara]

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. Compassion is clearly more than a side dish with her. She's demonstrated more classic Wonder Woman moments in her own book than in any other book in which she appears. Yeah, even Soule's book. Azz's book, right now, is THE book to which you go if you want to see Diana demonstrating her compassion. She's done some nice things in SM/WW, sure. But not quite the same level. JL? Do I even have to say it?

Well, what you lack in support for your "argument," you make up for in...something. I guess.

What's the point of saying she's "Hercules with breasts" if not to imply that she's muscle-headed, hypermasculine (behind the breasts), and defined by being the child of Zeus? And that point start to evaporate once you acknowledge her compassion--even though you try to dismiss it as "a side." By this point in Azz's run, she's defined by her actions and her impact on others, like bringing out the best in Hera--and that is sure not attributable to being a child of Zeus or another Hercules.



Yeah--no offense to my allies who share my preference for Azz's WW over Soule's, but I agree that those statements are hyperbolic. I wouldn't argue that Soule's Wonder Woman has no personality, but I do find that her characterization is less distinctive and less intriguing that that of Azz's Wonder Woman. For example, when Soule's WW lectures her Amazon sister's students about becoming self-reliant, her heart is certainly in the right place, but the speech itself is a little banal, like a boilerplate commencement address. By contrast, when Azz's WW talks to Hera about self-reliance, the speech has context and therefore it has depth. (And then she went off to wrestle Moon bear and show her some loving submission in true, odd Wonder Woman style.)

It seems to me that each author's WW emphasizes a different side of the original WW. Soule (whether by choice or, more likely, by the circucmstance of being given a book about WW's relationship to SM) emphasizes the side that organized so much of her life in "Man's World" around her man (Steve then, Superman now). Azz's emphasizes the side that had gusto and sometimes a wicked sense of humor but also a streak of weirdness, as she would say strange things about "loving submission" and the like; and I like that side better. I actually think there's a chance that in the Futures End tie-in Soule will emphasize the side I like. We'll see.

Sorry Silvanus, I didn't have the time to do point by point assertions for your counter arguments (and still don't, it's a beautiful Saturday afternoon) but I wasn't deliberately trying to be dismissive.

In Superman/Wonder Woman she gets to be a regular person. Outside of her costume she dresses like a 22 year old. She goes shopping with her girlfriend and talks about men. She goes out to clubs to dance because she loves it, she doesn't just stand there brooding as a spectator. She's not a stiff demigod, that only talks to other deities and wears an overcoat over her costume instead of normal clothes.

There are also appearances by her traditional rogues gallery. It's the first time we've seen Angle Man or the Blue Snowman in the New 52. Steve Trevor drops in to complain and be bitter. There's another Amazon around that's not a sex pirating, baby trader, so she gives you hope the others aren't as bad as Hephaestus claimed.

Diana inspires little girls to be their best selves, that's a hallmark of her character that's been conspicuously missing since the relaunch, but we get that in Superman/Wonder Woman. It's a more diverse depiction, that's more inclusive of her history. We get Doom's Doorway, an invisible jet and the beginnings of Purple Ray technology.

In Superman/Wonder Woman we get explanations for her powers. It was Soule who told us about the God of War ramifications, he doesn't leave us in the dark like Azzarello. There are far greater feats, there's greater insight into her personality, there's much better art, it's just an all around better title.

Plus, so far, there aren't any puns.

[Silvanus]

Sorry Silvanus, I didn't have the time to do point by point assertions for your counter arguments (and still don't, it's a beautiful Saturday afternoon) but I wasn't deliberately trying to be dismissive.

Oh, no problem!

t's just an all around better title.

Plus, so far, there aren't any puns.

We just like different things--I think the puns are often clever and help to give the gods a distinctive manner of speech; a quick cameo by Blue Snowman is OK but doesn't do much for me; breakfast with her brothers and new friend is as good in my view as shopping with an Amazon; I can easily live without seeing her talking about a man so much; the idea of inspiring girls is great but a bland and cliched speech is still bland and cliched (and don't forget her kindness and encouragement to a little girl in Libya--even before she found out that the little girl was actually her big sister); I get a lot more hope for the Amazons by seeing how Diana has been leading them in the last few issues than by seeing Hessia try to kill Superman behind Wonder Woman's back; I think the art in WW when Chiang is doing it is much more interesting and fun to look at than anything in SM/WW; etc. Oh--and I like her trenchcoat! For you, SM/WW is a better title all around, and for me, it's a much more ordinary, average, run-of-the-mill, conventional superhero comic, and Azz has a more original, exciting angle on what comics can do with superheros.

I was happy to see Doom's Doorway, though.

[Dr. Poison]

Sorry Silvanus, I didn't have the time to do point by point assertions for your counter arguments (and still don't, it's a beautiful Saturday afternoon) but I wasn't deliberately trying to be dismissive.

In Superman/Wonder Woman she gets to be a regular person. Outside of her costume she dresses like a 22 year old. She goes shopping with her girlfriend and talks about men. She goes out to clubs to dance because she loves it, she doesn't just stand there brooding as a spectator. She's not a stiff demigod, that only talks to other deities and wears an overcoat over her costume instead of normal clothes.

There are also appearances by her traditional rogues gallery. It's the first time we've seen Angle Man or the Blue Snowman in the New 52. Steve Trevor drops in to complain and be bitter. There's another Amazon around that's not a sex pirating, baby trader, so she gives you hope the others aren't as bad as Hephaestus claimed.

Diana inspires little girls to be their best selves, that's a hallmark of her character that's been conspicuously missing since the relaunch, but we get that in Superman/Wonder Woman. It's a more diverse depiction, that's more inclusive of her history. We get Doom's Doorway, an invisible jet and the beginnings of Purple Ray technology.

In Superman/Wonder Woman we get explanations for her powers. It was Soule who told us about the God of War ramifications, he doesn't leave us in the dark like Azzarello. There are far greater feats, there's greater insight into her personality, there's much better art, it's just an all around better title.

Plus, so far, there aren't any puns.

Razor Tiara makes a lot of good points here on why I enjoy Soule's Wonder Woman much more than Azzarello's. Soule's Diana comes across as down the earth, compassionate, inspiring, and devoted to those she cares about without the over the top violent and sexual stunts that turned me off from Azzarello's take. Like Razor said, she's not stiff or boring, she's a much more broad spectrum of a superhero instead of a one trick pony of mythology.

[Razor Tiara]

Razor Tiara makes a lot of good points here on why I enjoy Soule's Wonder Woman much more than Azzarello's. Soule's Diana comes across as down the earth, compassionate, inspiring, and devoted to those she cares about without the over the top violent and sexual stunts that turned me off from Azzarello's take. Like Razor said, she's not stiff or boring, she's a much more broad spectrum of a superhero instead of a one trick pony of mythology.

She's warmer in Superman/Wonder Woman right?

But there's more than one trick to Azzarello's take. Sure there's an overabundance of mythology and puns, but there's also the cryptic presentation that leads to endless speculation from readers that forces them to think the book is deeper than it really is. The puns aren't at all clever, but Azzarello's slight of hand that makes readers feel as though they're getting more than they are, is. He's gotten help from the readers at every turn. He gets the ball rolling and lets his fans jump to their own conclusions, which is an exercise some seem to find endlessly appealing.

Give me a straight forward superhero story every time, that's the reason I read comics. There's enough ambiguity in the real world.

[Dr. Poison]

She's warmer in Superman/Wonder Woman right?

But there's more than one trick to Azzarello's take. Sure there's an overabundance of mythology and puns, but there's also the cryptic presentation that leads to endless speculation from readers that forces them to think the book is deeper than it really is. The puns aren't at all clever, but Azzarello's slight of hand that makes readers feel as though they're getting more than they are, is. He's gotten help from the readers at every turn. He gets the ball rolling and lets his fans jump to their own conclusions, which is an exercise some seem to find endlessly appealing.

Give me a straight forward superhero story every time, that's the reason I read comics. There's enough ambiguity in the real world.

That's very true indeed. That's exactly why a few months ago, I suggested that Azz's Wonder Woman reads almost like a choose your own adventure book.

[Blacksun]

I don't see it. Azzarello's Diana always feels so much more real to me. Sometimes flawed, sure, but that's the point. Soule's Diana is just so flat, so bland, her dialogue feels so... written. If that makes sense. Perhaps the best way to explain it would be like an acting performance. A great performance makes it so much easier to forget that what you're watching isn't real, and to lose yourself in the drama. A bad performance instantly takes you out of the fantasy.

It's just like in this preview. It's very much just going-through-the-motion, dialogue by numbers. But there's nothing really behind it - no character, no personality. As she often is in SM/WW, Diana feels like she's there, but she's not really there.

I could put any female warrior and it would read the same. Red Sonja, Sif, but they probably would show more personality.
It lacks a heart and a personality. the preview couldn't be more generic

Oh, no problem!




We just like different things--I think the puns are often clever and help to give the gods a distinctive manner of speech; a quick cameo by Blue Snowman is OK but doesn't do much for me; breakfast with her brothers and new friend is as good in my view as shopping with an Amazon; I can easily live without seeing her talking about a man so much; the idea of inspiring girls is great but a bland and cliched speech is still bland and cliched (and don't forget her kindness and encouragement to a little girl in Libya--even before she found out that the little girl was actually her big sister); I get a lot more hope for the Amazons by seeing how Diana has been leading them in the last few issues than by seeing Hessia try to kill Superman behind Wonder Woman's back; I think the art in WW when Chiang is doing it is much more interesting and fun to look at than anything in SM/WW; etc. Oh--and I like her trenchcoat! For you, SM/WW is a better title all around, and for me, it's a much more ordinary, average, run-of-the-mill, conventional superhero comic, and Azz has a more original, exciting angle on what comics can do with superheros.

I was happy to see Doom's Doorway, though.

I can live without that too. I prefer how well she does in relationships with her family, friends, enemies who aren't enemies at all or they are...Romantic relationship is not more worthy than other kind of relationship
Also some people speak very different from the "normal" way to speak, maybe not with puns but greek gods are a chapter apart.

[Vonter Voman]

Azzarello puts phrasing impact above "realistic dialogues". If it's fun, I'm into it. And all characters speak with heart, they don't just say the text.

But the gods are really the ones less "realistic". I can see the other characters speaking like they speak in the real world. Specially the more grounded ones like Zola, Lennox or Milan. Azzarello is known for using slang and transporting accents to text the best.

[Razor Tiara]

Azzarello puts phrasing impact above "realistic dialogues". If it's fun, I'm into it. And all characters speak with heart, they don't just say the text.

But the gods are really the ones less "realistic". I can see the other characters speaking like they speak in the real world. Specially the more grounded ones like Zola, Lennox or Milan. Azzarello is known for using slang and transporting accents to text the best.

Nope, Bendis is better at that.

[Silvanus]

Give me a straight forward superhero story every time, that's the reason I read comics. There's enough ambiguity in the real world.

Fair enough. If that's your preference, then it makes sense that you'd prefer the more straightforward book--or, as I see it, the more simplistic and less original book. No one's being "forced" to speculate or to think anything, though. Some people still enjoy books and art that leave room for interpretation--which, after all, have been around a lot longer than even the most "traditional" comic books. In art and literature,we get to safely enjoy ambiguity and all the thinking it encourages--whereas in real life, as you suggest, it's often a lot less fun. And also, I get that some people enjoy ambiguity in literature but prefer straightforwardness in comics. Different strokes.

[brettc1]

Interesting. So, what does Johns write. Superpowers with a woman? A temper with superpowers?

Red Sonja with a bottle of hair dye.

[Dr. Hurt]

Why is she dressed like Rambo, hand grenades and all that?
I was expecting her to perhaps have lost her humanity because of the events that happened in the future, and thus have a more godly appearence. Godmode lightning effects, plus Ares' feather cape and helmet. I think that would have been cool. This Rambo thing looks like crap.

[Blacksun]

Why is she dressed like Rambo, hand grenades and all that?
I was expecting her to perhaps have lost her humanity because of the events that happened in the future, and thus have a more godly appearence. Godmode lightning effects, plus Ares' feather cape and helmet. I think that would have been cool. This Rambo thing looks like crap.

For sure if I was God of War I wouldn't use pedestrian clothes.

In the cover, I guess of Futures End #31 she is in full God of War gear

c'mon Azzarello, writer her a little more i know you want it

solicit

THE NEW 52: FUTURES END #31
Written by BRIAN AZZARELLO, JEFF LEMIRE, DAN JURGENS and KEITH GIFFEN
Art by JESUS MERINO and DAN GREEN
Cover by RYAN SOOK
On sale DECEMBER 3 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
After the revelations of the last two issues, the Endgame begins! One hero retires, another reconsiders his career, and the world says goodbye to a third