If Hickman ends his run on Avengers without outing his mysterious "LGBT Avenger"...

[NexusTenebrare]

Neither does reality, so why is representing reality so important in comics featuring fictional characters?

At least at the end of your reply you see some small point in what I've said. In an ideal world all of that wouldn't matter. No, we don't live in an ideal world, but thinking and acting in any way possible like we do, or one day can, is a step in that direction if you ask me. When something is presented like its a big deal, it remains a big deal.

Because homosexuality having been under-represented in the past has done it such great good, right?
The only reason we've gone past stereotypes and the like is because LGBT people of the past strived for greater representation.

[Drucifer]

I guess we have different definitions of the relationship between sex and relationships then. I don't see the 2 as being so definitively intertwined. Sexuality is based heavily on sexual attraction. Relationships can exist without any sexual over/undertones.

Regardless of that, I just prefer to believe that the gender of the people you are attracted to has no bearing on the kind of person you are and the decisions you would make (that obviously aren't sexual decisions). That's how I like to view people and that's how I think it should be.

[Drucifer]

Because homosexuality having been under-represented in the past has done it such great good, right?
The only reason we've gone past stereotypes and the like is because LGBT people of the past strived for greater representation.

What I meant by that was if you keep treating people being gay as being such a big deal, people continue to think that its a big deal to be gay. It isn't a big deal, and it shouldn't be viewed as such. How many young people might be struggling to hide the fact that they are gay because the weight of it being such a big deal in society is making them nervous and afraid?

[NexusTenebrare]

What I meant by that was if you keep treating people being gay as being such a big deal, people continue to think that its a big deal to be gay. It isn't a big deal, and it shouldn't be viewed as such. How many young people might be struggling to hide the fact that they are gay because the weight of it being such a big deal in society is making them nervous and afraid?

No, they're struggling to hide the fact they are gay, because being gay is seen as a bad thing. And it is seen as a bad thing because it has had so little representation that people don't understand what it means to be gay and make up all kinds of crap.

[Drucifer]

I don't quite believe that. Having more representation of gay people in entertainment media is most likely not going to make people who view being gay as a bad thing change their minds any more than having more representation of atheists in entertainment media is going to make christians change theirs.

[Tiamatty]

You misunderstand. I said sexuality doesn't matter to me except where sex is involved. I didn't say anything about relationships. Would changing any of those characters you mentioned into gay couples actually change who they are, how they act, what their jobs are, the adventures they have? No, it wouldn't. At least, it shouldn't.

Actually, it should change them, to some degree. The average gay person is going to have different experiences than the average straight person, and should be a different person as a result. It's a common idea to say that any character who's not a straight white male should be written as though they are, and that they should be, ultimately, indistinguishable from a straight white male. This is shitty writing. A woman is not a man. A black person is not a white person. A gay person is not a straight person.

Neither does reality, so why is representing reality so important in comics featuring fictional characters?

At least at the end of your reply you see some small point in what I've said. In an ideal world all of that wouldn't matter. No, we don't live in an ideal world, but thinking and acting in any way possible like we do, or one day can, is a step in that direction if you ask me. When something is presented like its a big deal, it remains a big deal.

Fiction is largely about reality. Fiction, ideally, says something about the world we live in.

For the record, even in an ideal world, I do actually still disagree with the idea that things like race, gender and sexuality shouldn't matter. I think they should. I think those differences should be embraced.

[NexusTenebrare]

I don't quite believe that. Having more representation of gay people in entertainment media is most likely not going to make people who view being gay as a bad thing change their minds any more than having more representation of atheists in entertainment media is going to make christians change theirs.

That depends on the nature of the representation. Hence why we are asking for positive representation like having a gay character on Marvel's premiere team.
And if you actually think burrying your head in the sand is going to get us any closer to this utopian mindset you seem to wish for humanity (which sure as hell isn't going to happen for several generations if ever), you must be deluded. Diferences not mattering is a nice end goal, but it's not going to happen without putting some work towards it.

[Drucifer]

Perhaps I'm just different, then. I don't see things like sexuality and skin color as being character defining traits in people.

[Tiamatty]

I don't quite believe that. Having more representation of gay people in entertainment media is most likely not going to make people who view being gay as a bad thing change their minds any more than having more representation of atheists in entertainment media is going to make christians change theirs.

I find this position utterly incomprehensible. I honestly do. Having gay people in the media will absolutely promote acceptance of homosexuality. The more familiar people are with it, the more comfortable they'll be with it. The people who set in their ways aren't likely to change their minds, sure. But everyone else, by seeing gay people on TV, will get more comfortable with it. When Ellen came out, a lot of people were uncomfortable. But she opened the door, and more shows started dealing with LGBT content, and more people grew to be fine with it.

Don't underestimate the influence that popular media has on the culture. I doubt same-sex marriage would have the support it does today if Will & Grace hadn't come along.

[Tiamatty]

Perhaps I'm just different, then. I don't see things like sexuality and skin color as being character defining traits in people.

They're things that, for a lot of people, can be a part of what defines them. I mean, just look at any black comedian for some examples of that sort of thing.

A lot of people seem to think of "being defined" by something as saying that it's the entirety of who someone is as a person. But there's a whole lot of space between "it's irrelevant" and "it's the most important thing about them." To use the current Ms. Marvel as an example: She's a Pakistani-American. That is a part of who she is. Is it all she is? Of course not. Being a geek is probably her greatest defining quality. But being brown is still a part of who she is. It's still something that partially defines both her identity and her daily life.

[Drucifer]

I find this position utterly incomprehensible. I honestly do. Having gay people in the media will absolutely promote acceptance of homosexuality. The more familiar people are with it, the more comfortable they'll be with it. The people who set in their ways aren't likely to change their minds, sure. But everyone else, by seeing gay people on TV, will get more comfortable with it. When Ellen came out, a lot of people were uncomfortable. But she opened the door, and more shows started dealing with LGBT content, and more people grew to be fine with it.

Don't underestimate the influence that popular media has on the culture. I doubt same-sex marriage would have the support it does today if Will & Grace hadn't come along.

Again, I think I am being misunderstood here. My point was that representation in the media isn't going to change the mind of people that think its bad. Lots of people might be uncomfortable with it but thats not quite the same thing as people thinking its bad. Theres already plenty of representation of gay people in TV and movies and lots of people still think its bad. They aren't going to change their minds no matter how much they are exposed to it. Thats what I was saying.

I think if you took an extra minute to analyze the things I am saying you will see the point I am attempting to get across even if I may not be wording it very well.

[Tiamatty]

Again, I think I am being misunderstood here. My point was that representation in the media isn't going to change the mind of people that think its bad. Lots of people might be uncomfortable with it but thats not quite the same thing as people thinking its bad. Theres already plenty of representation of gay people in TV and movies and lots of people still think its bad. They aren't going to change their minds no matter how much they are exposed to it. Thats what I was saying.

I think if you took an extra minute to analyze the things I am saying you will see the point I am attempting to get across even if I may not be wording it very well.

OK, but I'm saying the people set in their ways aren't really the target when it comes to LGBT representation in the media. The target is LGBT people themselves (so they feel less alone), and normal people who may be uncomfortable based on a lack of experience. More LGBT representation in the media helps those people to grow more comfortable, so that they don't show animosity towards gay people and make them feel bad.

[krazijoe]

OK, but I'm saying the people set in their ways aren't really the target when it comes to LGBT representation in the media. The target is LGBT people themselves (so they feel less alone), and normal people who may be uncomfortable based on a lack of experience. More LGBT representation in the media helps those people to grow more comfortable, so that they don't show animosity towards gay people and make them feel bad.

Or the writer just felt like the person that's being written about is gay. It doesn't have to have meaning, it could just be.
As for who it is, I'm voting Reed Richards..

[tsaimelemoni]

I don't know why, but I really want Hyperion and Thor to date.

[ThunderingHammer]

Why are only the Latino superheroes gay??! Living lightning. Rictor. Now sunspot? I'm severely upset at this. I respected bobby and rictor when they were straight friends who cared about their teammates like brothers. Not anymore. It seemed they were just real true friends. Then it's retconned that they were in love with their best friends?! That makes the friendship fake and their motivations for being friends worthless as they had a vested interest to try and get with shatterstar and (if true) Sam. It just cheapens a friendship. I don't necessarily agree with the lifestyle. But I live and let live. However, that just irks me.