Man Child?

[marvelguy25]

people say he's an idiot and i tend to agree when dealing with a writer like slott especially trying so hard to make otto better than peter and sometimes not in a really good executed way. i also didn't like today's issue of ASM issue 6 especially with how black cat was protrayed.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

Some of the points here approving the man child thing are about decisions anyone could falter through in making, I think that is part of what makes him someone to relate to, someone to connect with.

People say 'man-child' when what they really mean is 'he's not married to MJ'.

That's the impression I got so far.

[Heasensy32]

They are trying to connect him with young men and hip dudes in a world of stern and professional men with no tendency for immaturity.

Same goes with characters like iceman, Johnny storm, Deadpool, and nightcrawler.

[Agent Z]

I think it's the result of a variety of factors. The most obvious being the dissolution of the marriage. Another is that for about 35 years the Spider-Man writers were dominated by Americans born between 1946 and 1958 (Gerry Conway, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern, Tom Defalco, Peter David, Howard Mackie, JMS.) The most notables exceptions were Brits (Jenkins, Millar.) A shift to a different generation of writers at the same time as there's a shift to a new status quo is going to be result in a different sensibility.



When a character has his life together, that tends to be the end of the story.

I understand the need for conflict but sometimes I think the writers go too far in the opposite direction and it feels like they aren't even trying to develop Peter. Plus I don't think he ever 'had his life together' pre-OMD- people just assumed that because he married the girl of his dreams.

[Scorponok]

The way I saw it was Peter trying to raise his game.

However he was setting a goal that's too high to reach. Since MJ told him that realistically he can't save everyone. With Parker Industries, while the idea to contain and depower villians is a good one, they're not ready for it since they're a start up company.

[Confuzzled]

However he was setting a goal that's too high to reach. Since MJ told him that realistically he can't save everyone. With Parker Industries, while the idea to contain and depower villians is a good one, they're not ready for it since they're a start up company.

Yeah, and more than raising his game, it felt like he still couldn't accept death being a part of his superhero life, or life in general, as evidenced by clinging to May and screaming "NOT YOU TOOOOO! I WON'T LET YOU GOOOO!" in the earlier dream sequence.

If that's not the definition of manchild then what is?

[Pako]

Rigid uncompromising morals is one thing, I think he only really steps into man child territory when he whines about his life in first world problems fashion; whiiich he really hasn't done in the current run. He's been rather up beat hasn't he? Especially with Slott writing, which some even seem to have complaints about how the characters gloss over emotional impact of their problems or don't dwell on them for long. So, he isn't really doing the man child thing at the moment. Unlike when he broods constantly about his financial status, or marriage while doing nothing about it.

imo, he's was more of a man-child when he was still married to MJ.

[Mister Mets]

Yeah, and more than raising his game, it felt like he still couldn't accept death being a part of his superhero life, or life in general, as evidenced by clinging to May and screaming "NOT YOU TOOOOO! I WON'T LET YOU GOOOO!" in the earlier dream sequence.

If that's not the definition of manchild then what is?

A manchild might be the type to decide that being a superhero is too hard.

[Kevinroc]

I think the problem is he's still written as if he were still in high school or college, whether he's married or not. Linkara talked about this issue a bit during his diatribe against One More Day.

[Sardorim]

While it's true that Peter's life is a juggling act. That doesn't make him a bad person, just human.

Making a demonic deal to end his marriage, guilt trip his wife to help grant his selfish desire, kill his unborn child, and to violate all of 61 by mind-wiping them because he couldn't live without his Aunt May, who had accepted death, makes him a bad person. Though that's for another topic.

Not to mention that wasting his mind and talent makes him a horrid person in Doc Ock's mind as he could accomplish so much if he bothered to try.

I think it's the result of a variety of factors. The most obvious being the dissolution of the marriage. Another is that for about 35 years the Spider-Man writers were dominated by Americans born between 1946 and 1958 (Gerry Conway, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern, Tom Defalco, Peter David, Howard Mackie, JMS.) The most notables exceptions were Brits (Jenkins, Millar.) A shift to a different generation of writers at the same time as there's a shift to a new status quo is going to be result in a different sensibility.



When a character has his life together, that tends to be the end of the story.

Doc Ock still had stories as Spock even after becoming a success and it was great reading about how he maintains his success and the troubles that come with being successful and actually applying himself. Peter Parker doesn't have to stay a man-child that always fails to be interesting and Spock proved that success can be interesting.

[Mia]

I think the problem is he's still written as if he were still in high school or college, whether he's married or not. Linkara talked about this issue a bit during his diatribe against One More Day.

Exactly. The expression ‘man-child’ typically refers to an (legally) adult male who behaves like a child. But when I apply it to the current version of Peter I mean it in terms that he just seems to be mentally stuck in behaving like a 19 year old kid who has absolutely no plans on maturing or behaving like a grown up. Or an adult male. I don’t find that heroic at all. It’s pathetic.
The pre-BND Peter (yes the one who was still married to MJ) seemed to be more age appropriate and behaved like a guy who still met his responsibilities and support. Yet at the same time when you compared him to other male heroes in the Marvel U. Such as Steve Rogers, Tony Stark (written in character) and Matt Murdock he came up woefully short . Peter was still riddled with insecurities. He was far from squared away.

I think it's the result of a variety of factors. The most obvious being the dissolution of the marriage. Another is that for about 35 years the Spider-Man writers were dominated by Americans born between 1946 and 1958 (Gerry Conway, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, Roger Stern, Tom Defalco, Peter David, Howard Mackie, JMS.) The most notables exceptions were Brits (Jenkins, Millar.) A shift to a different generation of writers at the same time as there's a shift to a new status quo is going to be result in a different sensibility.

I was reading an interview with a Hollywood producer a few years ago. And he mentioned that when he seeks to cast leading men in tv shows. He looks for Australian actors because they come across as more independent and as if they can stand on their own two feet. Whereas many American men come across as ‘mamma’s boys’.

I’ve noticed lately that in many tv shows and films many of the leading men are either Brits or Aussies. So if the current American sensibility is for men to perpetually act like children. Then the country is dire straights.

[Pako]

I think the problem is he's still written as if he were still in high school or college, whether he's married or not. Linkara talked about this issue a bit during his diatribe against One More Day.

Amusingly Linkara's points are aimed at the married Peter.

[Kevinroc]

Amusingly Linkara's points are aimed at the married Peter.

Wasn't his point that OMD was systemic of the larger issues regarding the way Marvel portrays Spider-Man?

Even Gerry Conway said that Miles Morales represents who Spider-Man is more than the current 616 Peter Parker does.

[Pako]

Wasn't his point that OMD was systemic of the larger issues regarding the way Marvel portrays Spider-Man?

Even Gerry Conway said that Miles Morales represents who Spider-Man is more than the current 616 Peter Parker does.

Peter's already let MJ go effectively satisfying the point of not taking responsibility to family and distancing himself from the relationship that makes his life difficult as Spider-Man, and May doesn't depend exclusively on Peter anymore.

So for what non-MJ related reason is he behaving like a man child currently ?

[Vortex85]

Rigid uncompromising morals is one thing, I think he only really steps into man child territory when he whines about his life in first world problems fashion; whiiich he really hasn't done in the current run. He's been rather up beat hasn't he? Especially with Slott writing, which some even seem to have complaints about how the characters gloss over emotional impact of their problems or don't dwell on them for long. So, he isn't really doing the man child thing at the moment. Unlike when he broods constantly about his financial status, or marriage while doing nothing about it.

imo, he's was more of a man-child when he was still married to MJ.

I think Peter dwelling on his adult life problems is a staple of the character. Adults reflect on their problems, they worry about their love life, they worry about finances, they try to improve their situation. Adult life is full of worries and problems and Peter dwelling on them, being upset, and striving to make his personal life better is part of the great appeals and a staple of the character. In no way did this make him a man-child.

The fact that Slott writes Peter with little or no self-reflection on his own life tends to suggest that Marvel has no desire to age him, but they want to stagnate him. They are content to dumb down the character in order to avoid the elephant in the room.

If Peter doesn't care that he is not in a relationship, if he no longer cares to one day have kids, or have any legacy outside of being Spider-man, it makes him almost child like, living only in his fantasy super hero world. The fact that he seems content with his current situation is quite frustrating as a long time reader. Once upon a time Peter cared about growing up and about the day he could one day put Spider-man aside. And most of all he cared for Mary Jane, the love of his life who he was nothing without, his world.

All that has been stripped away and he doesn't seem to mind at all. When Mary Jane called it quits this time, he immediately moved on as if it was no big deal, like oh well, lets go talk to Jonah. It's almost like Peter doesn't even feel human anymore in the comics. He is truly a cartoon.