Hulk vs Thor

[Hazard]

I wouldn't say consistently. He can do it, but plenty of folks with regular speed have tagged the character.

Hey there, this is the part where it would be best if you familiarized yourself with the rules of the board.

Characters with no speed tag people with super speed all the time in comics (Example: Most times people tag Flash).

In Rumbles, those instances are discarded as PIS or SMvsFL.

[TheMadTitan]

Hey there, this is the part where it would be best if you familiarized yourself with the rules of the board.

Characters with no speed tag people with super speed all the time in comics (Example: Most times people tag Flash).

In Rumbles, those instances are discarded as PIS or SMvsFL.

Slow your horses there, pard'ner. You're not catching what I'm sayin.

I was arguing semantics, not arguing feats. Thor has the speed -- he in fact has superluminal speed if he's holding the hammer. But I don't think its fair to say that Thor regularly moves at anything faster than "fast for a human" speed, any more than it is fair to say that Iron Fist regularly channels external energy to enhance his attacks, daredevil regularly flips limos, or Hulk regularly punches out geography. Both of those things have happened, and more than once, but I don't think its fair to say they happen with regularity. More of a "character X on his top 20% of days" sort of situation.

Entirely valid for rumbles, but unfair to say that is what you will get out of the character on any given Sunday.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I wouldn't say consistently. He can do it, but plenty of folks with regular speed have tagged the character.

True, otherwise you'd have a pretty short comic.

But in a Rumble, where things like PIS aren't allowed- which the Thor gets tagged by slow people thing is, much like Deathstroke tagging the Flash- he's going to use his abilities to the best of his ability. Which means the bell dings, and he's either bludgeoning the Hulk unconscious at speed, tossing his green patootie into space, or if he has the hammer, any number of terrible, horrible things.

Horrible things.

Hulk has been shown traveling great distances via his jumps at speeds that seem like they have to be supersonic.

Which is travel speed. Not specifically useful in a fight.

[TheMadTitan]

True, otherwise you'd have a pretty short comic.

But in a Rumble, where things like PIS aren't allowed- which the Thor gets tagged by slow people thing is, much like Deathstroke tagging the Flash- he's going to use his abilities to the best of his ability. Which means the bell dings, and he's either bludgeoning the Hulk unconscious at speed, tossing his green patootie into space, or if he has the hammer, any number of terrible, horrible things.

Horrible things.



Which is travel speed. Not specifically useful in a fight.

He's tackled metas out of the air before (jack of hearts, is one that pops in my mind, though I have no idea where I remember seeing it) and he catches tank shells and rockets, all of which are supersonic.

[master of read]

He's tackled metas out of the air before (jack of hearts, is one that pops in my mind, though I have no idea where I remember seeing it) and he catches tank shells and rockets, all of which are supersonic.

and yet, he has a hard time tagging spiderman. sure, peter attacking him did jack **** to him but hulk couldnt tag him.

as hazard and the great old one has said, best read the rules on how we do things here.

[TheMadTitan]

and yet, he has a hard time tagging spiderman. sure, peter attacking him did jack **** to him but hulk couldnt tag him.

as hazard and the great old one has said, best read the rules on how we do things here.

Bah, thunderclap and it's over.

Rather than assuming I have not read the stickies, can we maybe have a discussion about where you draw the PIS? Hulk catches tank shells and rockets. He blocks bullets and lasers with scenery. All of those are impressive reflex feats, if not speed-feats per-se.

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...2a0df.jpg.html

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...b0d23.jpg.html

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...912a7.jpg.html

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...369f4.jpg.html

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...34d83.jpg.html

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...e055b.jpg.html (Note -- escape velocity is really fast)

Additionally, the point I was refuting was that travel speed has nothing to do with combat ability. Clearly, if you can jump at supersonic speed, the impact of your body will hurt someone. And, given that hulk has caught jets with his leaping ability, I'd say that's a lot of hurt, especially when added to call 100 punching power.

[Pendaran]

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...2a0df.jpg.html

Based on what is that supersonic?

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...b0d23.jpg.html

Random rockets from a robot are fast as what, and based on what?

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...912a7.jpg.html

More random rockets from weird looking guns that are fast as what, based on what?

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...369f4.jpg.html

And how fast was Jack of Hearts going? Setting aside that based on everything provided up to this feat, if your answer is any kind of fast, this basically amounts to Deathstroke tagging a Flash.

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...34d83.jpg.html

And how fast were these jets going? Setting aside that this is basically the Hulk hurling himself through the air at a thing.

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...e055b.jpg.html (Note -- escape velocity is really fast)

Yes, the travel speed of the Hulk's jump is really fast.

Additionally, the point I was refuting was that travel speed has nothing to do with combat ability.

It certainly has nothing to do with someone's superspeed reflexes, how fast they are, or lack thereof.

Additionally, the point I was refuting was that travel speed has nothing to do with combat ability. Clearly, if you can jump at supersonic speed, the impact of your body will hurt someone. And, given that hulk has caught jets with his leaping ability, I'd say that's a lot of hurt, especially when added to call 100 punching power.

If the other person is faster than the Hulk's non supersonic reflexes, they have already moved out of the way as he has moved himself to jump. Not hard to aim dodge a guy one has better reflexes than.

[Pendaran]

Bah, thunderclap and it's over.

That's not actually answering, in any way, the point of why it is that Spiderman is faster than the apparently supersonic Hulk. If the Hulk's reflexes are beyond the speed of sound, whenever Spiderman has been shown as any kind of faster, doesn't that mean the Hulk is being jobbed out as far as his speed?

[AlphaMale]

Bah, thunderclap and it's over.

Rather than assuming I have not read the stickies, can we maybe have a discussion about where you draw the PIS? Hulk catches tank shells and rockets. He blocks bullets and lasers with scenery. All of those are impressive reflex feats, if not speed-feats per-se.


http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...b0d23.jpg.html

http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/Ma...912a7.jpg.html


Additionally, the point I was refuting was that travel speed has nothing to do with combat ability. Clearly, if you can jump at supersonic speed, the impact of your body will hurt someone. And, given that hulk has caught jets with his leaping ability, I'd say that's a lot of hurt, especially when added to call 100 punching power.

Notwithstanding the fact that we are discussing movie versions of these characters, you do realize in these scans alone that Hulk in one scan gets tagged on his right should by a rocket and the other shows him taking several bullets to the abdomen?

[TheMadTitan]

Based on what is that supersonic?



Random rockets from a robot are fast as what, and based on what?



More random rockets from weird looking guns that are fast as what, based on what?



And how fast was Jack of Hearts going? Setting aside that based on everything provided up to this feat, if your answer is any kind of fast, this basically amounts to Deathstroke tagging a Flash.



And how fast were these jets going? Setting aside that this is basically the Hulk hurling himself through the air at a thing.



Yes, the travel speed of the Hulk's jump is really fast.



It certainly has nothing to do with someone's superspeed reflexes, how fast they are, or lack thereof.



If the other person is faster than the Hulk's non supersonic reflexes, they have already moved out of the way as he has moved himself to jump. Not hard to aim dodge a guy one has better reflexes than.

So I get what you're saying, but isn't the rule that things move as fast as what they are drawn as? We don't argue over how fast bullets are, for example, right? Rockets move at least as fast as bullets. Catching them in your hand is beyond ringer speed.

As for the debate being about movie versions of the characters, I feel that this sort of spun off a while ago. I was merely stating that Thor doesn't regularly move at bullet timer speeds in comic (though he can do it).

[master of read]

So I get what you're saying, but isn't the rule that things move as fast as what they are drawn as? We don't argue over how fast bullets are, for example, right? Rockets move at least as fast as bullets. Catching them in your hand is beyond ringer speed.

As for the debate being about movie versions of the characters, I feel that this sort of spun off a while ago. I was merely stating that Thor doesn't regularly move at bullet timer speeds in comic (though he can do it).

if that were true, then he would have no problem tagging spiderman, which he has shown he cant do.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Your argument boils down to "I'm selectively applying PIS". Which is irrelevant, since PIS in any form isn't allowed.

Plus, you're just plain wrong on the Hulk speed thing. Those scans actually do more against your argument than for it.

[Pendaran]

So I get what you're saying, but isn't the rule that things move as fast as what they are drawn as? We don't argue over how fast bullets are, for example, right? Rockets move at least as fast as bullets. Catching them in your hand is beyond ringer speed.

If those looked like any kind of supersonic rocket, fired from a thing that fires supersonic rockets, this would be a valid response. Or even if, as far as the one that actually looks like a rocket launcher, the speeds of rockets did not themselves vary even in life.

As is, these rockets, from these weird things, are supersonic, based on what? "All rockets are supersonic"? All? There are subsonic rocket launchers right down to the modern era, and those are rockets from recognizable things firing them. Here, this is a bunch of weird ****, firing atypical crap off. So you're already starting from "even recognizable things of this nature vary in speed" as far as one of them, and going from there to "these aren't even recognizable things" as far as the others.

[The Drunkard Kid]

It kinda falls in the same vague area as blocking blasts from a generic energy weapon. Gambit has blocked/deflected a hail of energy bolts from point blank range from a generic energy gun wielded by Forge, but it's not really a good piece of evidence to support a claim that Gambit has lightspeed level reflexes.

Not to mention that fiction constantly lowballs RPGs and Missiles in terms of speed. In The Winter Soldier, Cap, Widow and Falcon were all reacting to and dodging those type of things from point blank range, which is ridiculous.

[TheMadTitan]

It kinda falls in the same vague area as blocking blasts from a generic energy weapon. Gambit has blocked/deflected a hail of energy bolts from point blank range from a generic energy gun wielded by Forge, but it's not really a good piece of evidence to support a claim that Gambit has lightspeed level reflexes.

Not to mention that fiction constantly lowballs RPGs and Missiles in terms of speed. In The Winter Soldier, Cap, Widow and Falcon were all reacting to and dodging those type of things from point blank range, which is ridiculous.

I think it's the level of intentionality that sets this apart in my mind. Grabbing a tank-fired projectile or missile is no mean feat. We are not talking dodging here, we are talking snatching something out of the air like it was a baseball. And high atmospheric jumps are a regular Hulk feat. That's not PIS, thats SOP for Hulk. Without a constant thrust to keep you going, you need massive acceleration in an instant to reach that height.

None of that is to say that Hulk shows regular super speed or reflexes. Just that it is a heck of a lot murkier than folks are treating it. Certainly, by film versions, none of this stuff even matters -- don't recall too many matrix moments in the MCU.