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Thread: Hulk vs Thor

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    if that were true, then he would have no problem tagging spiderman, which he has shown he cant do.
    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...der_man120.jpg

    There are others, but none are legit -- not even the above. Spidey Precog and superior speed trumps the Hulk any day. Still, it has been shown in comics.

  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadTitan View Post
    I think it's the level of intentionality that sets this apart in my mind. Grabbing a tank-fired projectile or missile is no mean feat. We are not talking dodging here, we are talking snatching something out of the air like it was a baseball. And high atmospheric jumps are a regular Hulk feat. That's not PIS, thats SOP for Hulk. Without a constant thrust to keep you going, you need massive acceleration in an instant to reach that height.

    None of that is to say that Hulk shows regular super speed or reflexes. Just that it is a heck of a lot murkier than folks are treating it. Certainly, by film versions, none of this stuff even matters -- don't recall too many matrix moments in the MCU.
    The thing about the jumping feats is that, in addition to it being purely movement speed and having nothing to do with reflex speed, it's also something that anyone with super strength tends to do without regards to whether or not they have the movement speed necessary to do such a feat.

    Heck, Thing, Namor, Hulk, Juggernaut, Colossus, and even Thor and Sentry, among uncountable other bricks, have nowhere near the punching speed to hit as hard as they do with their respective masses.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    The thing about the jumping feats is that, in addition to it being purely movement speed and having nothing to do with reflex speed, it's also something that anyone with super strength tends to do without regards to whether or not they have the movement speed necessary to do such a feat.

    Heck, Thing, Namor, Hulk, Juggernaut, Colossus, and even Thor and Sentry, among uncountable other bricks, have nowhere near the punching speed to hit as hard as they do with their respective masses.
    The catching missiles was intended to show reflex speed. I found one funny scan that actually acknowledges it in universe: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...lk+001-007.jpg

    Jumping is a hard one, but you ability to move fast by running and flying really is unconnected with it. It is one of the rare cases where strength just translates into movement rate. Now, every super leap should probably create sinkholes and shatter city streets, no argument there.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadTitan View Post
    So I get what you're saying, but isn't the rule that things move as fast as what they are drawn as? We don't argue over how fast bullets are, for example, right? Rockets move at least as fast as bullets. Catching them in your hand is beyond ringer speed.
    It really depends on the rocket. The SS.10 had a speed of 80 m/s, which is well short of even pistol rounds. That is more like arrow speed. The RPG-7 shoots a rocket with a velocity of about 115 m/s, still well short of a 9mm. A good crossbow can beat that. The M72 LAW shoots a 145 m/s rocket. The SMAW has a muzzle velocity of 220 m/s. The AT-4 shoots a 290 m/s rocket, which is right around a 9mm pistol. The Hydra 70 has a speed of about 730 m/s, so we are into assault rifle territory.

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadTitan View Post
    I think it's the level of intentionality that sets this apart in my mind. Grabbing a tank-fired projectile or missile is no mean feat. We are not talking dodging here, we are talking snatching something out of the air like it was a baseball. And high atmospheric jumps are a regular Hulk feat. That's not PIS, thats SOP for Hulk. Without a constant thrust to keep you going, you need massive acceleration in an instant to reach that height.

    None of that is to say that Hulk shows regular super speed or reflexes. Just that it is a heck of a lot murkier than folks are treating it. Certainly, by film versions, none of this stuff even matters -- don't recall too many matrix moments in the MCU.
    It's not murky based on any of the content of your scans and the claims you make alongside them. You posted a bunch of stuff that is "supersonic" that has nothing to show such other than you claiming it is, making claims about the speeds of objects that don't even bear out in reality, yet somehow should in the comics, and making analogies to guns that don't bear out.

    If you want to talk murky? Trying to say that despite wide variance in things, what is going on is the single one that favours your claims makes a murky amount of sense. It could be more simple to go, perhaps, that at best, these showings don't clearly demonstrate anything. That's being generous.

    The catching missiles was intended to show reflex speed.
    Then it was an odd choice to try that with. You posted a bunch of vague feats that show nothing of any substance and say this should make this "more murkier than folks are treating it". Alternatively, what speeds are any of those things going, and your proof for this from the comic is what?
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-18-2014 at 11:15 PM.

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadTitan View Post
    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...der_man120.jpg

    There are others, but none are legit -- not even the above. Spidey Precog and superior speed trumps the Hulk any day. Still, it has been shown in comics.
    So, when Spiderman is otherwise shown as too fast for the Hulk, is the Hulk jobbing? Lots of things are shown in comics and in response to one fellow pointing to how we weigh evidence here, you said "I've read the stickied threads" more or less, in that sense, how is this valid for anything unless your argument is "whatever happens in comics counts"?

    Spidey Precog and superior speed trumps the Hulk any day. Still, it has been shown in comics.
    Deathstroke tags the Flash in comics, the Hulk gets choked out by a snake, and Spiderman beats up Heralds of Galactus. What do you feel pointing this out accomplishes?
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-18-2014 at 11:01 PM.

  7. #82
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadTitan View Post
    The catching missiles was intended to show reflex speed. I found one funny scan that actually acknowledges it in universe: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...lk+001-007.jpg

    Jumping is a hard one, but you ability to move fast by running and flying really is unconnected with it. It is one of the rare cases where strength just translates into movement rate. Now, every super leap should probably create sinkholes and shatter city streets, no argument there.
    To jump like Hulk, using anything like realistic physics, would require him to be able to move his legs at hypersonic speeds, with the escape velocity one requiring around Mach 29, IIRC.

    To *strike* like Hulk and other bricks near that tier, under those same stipulations, would probably require him to be able to move his fists at something approaching lightspeed.

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Just while we're here, not that I'm generally thrilled by the "I'm going to invoke reality/science to get past the details of comic books written by people with no grand understanding of it" argument as far as then intersecting with it enough to go "even in reality, that's not the case", but if someone's going to try and use it for justifying things, it would be something to at least be consistent, because you indeed end up with..

    To *strike* like Hulk and other bricks near that tier, under those same stipulations, would probably require him to be able to move his fists at something approaching lightspeed.
    The guy jumped. It's travel. The speed of him hurling through the air is not the speed of his reflexes. If you're trying to cite otherwise and you are invoking stuff like the physics of jumping, then you get into having to explain why this isn't your argument also.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 09-18-2014 at 11:16 PM.

  9. #84
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    @TheMadTitan:

    Seriously, read the rules on the board.

    Hulk is consistently portrayed as "faster than someone his size who looks like a lumbering brute ought to be." Sure, sometimes writers lose their crap and decide to have him do completely ridiculous stuff, on panel! But that's why we have PIS and SMvFL rules on this board.

    On Rumbles, just because he's done it on a comic page, does not mean that Deathstroke is fast enough to hit Wally West. Just because he's done it on a comic page does not mean that Spider Man can beat up a herald of Galactus with his fists. Just because he's done it on a comic page does not mean that Batman can knock the wind out of both Hulk and Pre-Flashpoint Wonder Woman with a stomach kick. All of these things are ludicrously beyond those characters' established, consistent portrayal.

    So, Hulk, who is most definitely not consistently portrayed as a guy with high-end bullet-time (or better) reflexes, isn't that fast here, despite having several situations where he's done things requiring speed of that magnitude. He's much-more-frequently-and-consistently been shown as a guy who even Captain America dances around with ease.

    Edit: Clicked a bit too quickly:

    Also, jumping is consistently considered travel speed on this board. Hulk is really good at it, but it's not a reaction speed feat, at all.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    So, when Spiderman is otherwise shown as too fast for the Hulk, is the Hulk jobbing? Lots of things are shown in comics and in response to one fellow pointing to how we weigh evidence here, you said "I've read the stickied threads" more or less, in that sense, how is this valid for anything unless your argument is "whatever happens in comics counts"?



    Deathstroke tags the Flash in comics, the Hulk gets choked out by a snake, and Spiderman beats up Heralds of Galactus. What do you feel pointing this out accomplishes?
    Read the thing you responded to. If you're getting that I am saying it is a valid feat, you need to read it again.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadTitan View Post
    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...der_man120.jpg

    There are others, but none are legit -- not even the above. Spidey Precog and superior speed trumps the Hulk any day. Still, it has been shown in comics.
    this is more of a low showing for spiderman, which we dont us, than a high reflex speed for hulk.

    seriously, read the rules.

  12. #87
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadTitan View Post
    Read the thing you responded to. If you're getting that I am saying it is a valid feat, you need to read it again.
    None of this answers the question asked at the end of it, of why you're thereby bringing it up, noting how the Hulk has done it various times..

    None of that further answers the lingering question of if you're trying to argue for a supersonic Hulk, setting aside all the problems with the ways you try to do so for just a moment, how can you also say that Spiderman has superior speed to any notable degree? How by your standards is the Hulk not jobbing when he ever has trouble hitting the guy?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinoypanzer View Post
    Here is a blog that tallies up every Hulk vs Thor fight up until 2011.
    http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2011/09/hulk-vs-thor.html
    Actually the writer seems to update these regularly.

  14. #89
    The King is behind you... byc's Avatar
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    Did anybody tell the newbies this thread got moved to Rumbles forum? Which has strict rules about how debates are done?

    Thor crushes Hulk in most cases.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzub View Post
    norse god of thunder > gamma monster
    I agree that Thor > Hulk, but you can't argue with the origin story.
    i mean Sentry is considered significantly more powerful than Thor, and the reason for his powers is an amped up Captain America-serum.

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