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  1. #16
    Rachel Grey-Summers Sardorim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    Then she should be given a chance to be redeemed, if she makes real efforts to better mutant kind and atone her previous actions, is that not an good chance for character development and an actual interesting redemption story? If not I don't see any reason why she should not be killed off so we can see story telling potential from the fall out of her death. I say either move the character forward or kill her off, having jut be the rather non nonsensical, unsympathetic, rather one dimensional character she is now, over the stronger more developed character she was in the past, does no one any favors. If the character is going to be constantly static after what Bendis had her do, maybe she should die.

    I think the fact she had no real role in reversing M-Day robs her of agency and chance of redemption and leaves you with very little to do with the character at this point.
    No she shouldn't because she cannot be redeemed. All she can do is serve her punishment and actually try and do good things for the people she hurt and even than it will never make up for genocide. Furthermore, doing good things doesn't erase having done bad things. If Scarlet Witch does good things for Mutantkind than she will have earned the right to be tolerated but she should never expect to be forgiven for genocide nor should she ever take up a moral high ground when it comes to Mutantkind considering that all the things she has done.

  2. #17
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
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    I think her story would've been better handled in the X-franchise, to be honest. She came across as more sympathetic during AvX than she has in UA. The biggest mistake to date has been making her the voice, along with Alex, of "assimilation". It started as just a badly worded speech,but then Remender made it worse by trying to justify his bad wording through Wanda. It really didn't help anything.

    However, if people are going to hold her responsible alone for M-Day, then they need to hold Cyclops responsible for Xavier's death and trying to take control of the world when he was the Phoenix as well as p*ssing all over Xavier's dream now. Both were suffering from external influences and mitigating circumstances. It makes no sense to give one a free pass just because you're a fan of the character. It's hypocritical.

  3. #18
    BANNED ROSA13's Avatar
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    At the end of AvX, Captain America still hasn’t chosen to arrest his former love interest for casting a spell which led to the direct deaths of hundreds of people, Scarlet Witch: committed genocide and she gets a free pass?

  4. #19
    BANNED ROSA13's Avatar
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    double standard ?
    Cyclops gos crazy and kills one person. Branded the most evil mutant on earth.

    Scarlet Witch gos crazy and commits Genocide. Forgiven and given a second chance.

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROSA13 View Post
    double standard ?
    Cyclops gos crazy and kills one person. Branded the most evil mutant on earth.

    Scarlet Witch gos crazy and commits Genocide. Forgiven and given a second chance.
    Cyke goes crazy, gives world leaders ultimatums, kills his father figure and the dream and now tries to start a revolution. Magneto much?

    As I said, I wouldn't have put Scarlet Witch in UA. I would've handled her story first within the X-Men, directly in the aftermath of AvX. Also, I'm not entirely sure how much she's forgiven and how much it falls under "Avengers deal with their own". Same attitude Cyke takes as far as determining he, Emma, etc are above the laws.

  6. #21
    Rachel Grey-Summers Sardorim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    I think her story would've been better handled in the X-franchise, to be honest. She came across as more sympathetic during AvX than she has in UA. The biggest mistake to date has been making her the voice, along with Alex, of "assimilation". It started as just a badly worded speech,but then Remender made it worse by trying to justify his bad wording through Wanda. It really didn't help anything.

    However, if people are going to hold her responsible alone for M-Day, then they need to hold Cyclops responsible for Xavier's death and trying to take control of the world when he was the Phoenix as well as p*ssing all over Xavier's dream now. Both were suffering from external influences and mitigating circumstances. It makes no sense to give one a free pass just because you're a fan of the character. It's hypocritical.
    Cyclops didn't seek the power, it was forced upon him and he only went crazy after repeated and unprovoked attacks by the Avengers and more of the Phoenix forced upon him. Cyclops was also thrown in prison and left there to die and gets treated like crude by nearly everyone for something that was out of his control. Despite Cyclops being innocent he feels guilty over being taken advantage of by the Phoenix and doesn't even badmouth the Avengers.

    Wanda sought out the power herself and instead of working to make the world better, like Cyclops was doing, she instead tried to change reality into a version that SHE wanted. Than she nearly wiped out Mutantkind, after her reality failed, to spite her father. Wanda on the other hand is treated like a Princess that the Avengers constantly defend and they don't stand for any Mutant being rightly angry at her for what she has done. Than Wanda does what the Apoc Twins does and she constantly badmouths Mutants and pretend she has some morale high ground over Cyclops and every other Mutant and that only SHE can carry on Xavier's dream and none of the Mutants or X-Men can. Sheer arrogance and ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    Cyke goes crazy, gives world leaders ultimatums, kills his father figure and the dream and now tries to start a revolution. Magneto much?

    As I said, I wouldn't have put Scarlet Witch in UA. I would've handled her story first within the X-Men, directly in the aftermath of AvX. Also, I'm not entirely sure how much she's forgiven and how much it falls under "Avengers deal with their own". Same attitude Cyke takes as far as determining he, Emma, etc are above the laws.
    You're twisting things and ignoring the facts.

    Cyclops didn't want to be a Phoenix Host - it was forced upon him by the Avengers against his will. Yet despite that when he became one he set out to make the World a better place and it was going well. Than the Avengers kept attacking him because the Governments, fearing that they'll lose their power and reason to exist in a world made Utopia, demanded the Avengers help them and the Avengers obey'd like loyal dogs. Cyclops didn't kill Xavier in cold blood, he was being attacked by nearly all the mainline Avengers + Xavier and he only lashed out because of the Phoenix and in self-defense as Xavier was LITERALLY trying to lobotomize him and Emma.

    Nothing like Magneto as Magneto would never have put up with Humankind still treating Mutants like trash nor would he have made the world a better place for everyone. Instead he would have only made the world a better place for Mutantkind. That and Cyclops was winning.
    Last edited by Sardorim; 09-14-2014 at 10:49 PM.

  7. #22
    BANNED Mikekerr3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    So if she cannot be redeemed, should she be killed off forever?
    No just shown as someone who is working for redemption, not the bigoted idiot Remender is writing her as, they keep digging the hole deeper

  8. #23
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    To die a painful death ?

  9. #24
    BANNED Mikekerr3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    It is worth noting that after restoring Rictor's powers that she did try to form a plan to restore those of mutantkind who wanted their powers back but Cyclops stopped her leading to a chain of events in which she lost that power to reverse the spell. So basically, Cyclops and Patriot prevented her from undoing her spell.
    And since then she has worked aainst the mutants getting thier powers back and attacked the entire mutant population once again He being a stunningly ignorant bigot and unrepentant in UA doesn't help much either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    Because killing her off is too easy, she needs to spend the rest of her life for the betterment of Mutantkind. That will be her punishment and can serve some good for Mutantkind as the Scarlet Witch is a "Beloved" Avenger and has the people's popularity that could easily be used to help push the message that Mutants deserve to be treated as equals and with respect too.
    That would be hard t for her to do as long as she is being written as a ignorant bigot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    No she shouldn't because she cannot be redeemed. All she can do is serve her punishment and actually try and do good things for the people she hurt and even than it will never make up for genocide. Furthermore, doing good things doesn't erase having done bad things. If Scarlet Witch does good things for Mutantkind than she will have earned the right to be tolerated but she should never expect to be forgiven for genocide nor should she ever take up a moral high ground when it comes to Mutantkind considering that all the things she has done.
    I think you have that one right.

  10. #25
    Lick on, sweet prince. Sea Hound's Avatar
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    I'd start by having her drop the self righteous/defensive attitude she's adopted in Uncanny Avengers. She could also stop dissing mutants with Rogue and others. And her comment condemning Cyclops for the bad stuff he did while possessed was way off. (Really darling? Think it through. If he's responsible for what he did, then so are you.)

    I've only really read Disassembled/House of M, Children's Crusade and Uncanny Avengers with her in it. Uncanny, Astonishing, and X-Factor for the years following M-Day were very clear about the damage done to mutants, and the moral compromises which were made to ensure their survival. I'm happy to take the word of her fans that before all of this she was a heroic and likeable character, but I'm not that interested in reading decades old Avengers books.

    I actually was interested to see how she'd fit in Uncanny Avengers, and open to the idea that she'd redeem herself, but Remender has made her so hostile and unlikeable. I didn't dislike her before his run, and I was prepared to give her a free pass for being possessed. (Even if Children's Crusade sucked at explaining anything.)

    Honestly if I inadvertently did terrible damage to someone, I wouldn't compound it by being a dick to them later. I also wouldn't be upset if they didn't like me. Here's her first words to the sister she barely knows, who she's ignored for years after the decimation. (Polaris lost her powers, and was almost suicidal.).
    image.jpg


    She doesn't have to flagellate herself forever, just act like a decent person, and drop the "get over it already" hostility.

    I'd put her in an X-book. Most of the effects of what she did were in the X-books; that's where she should be redeemed. Work with mutants, and depowered mutants.

    If you want to make people like her, then make her likeable first.
    Last edited by Sea Hound; 09-14-2014 at 11:48 PM.
    "Self has no time for this."

  11. #26
    BANNED ROSA13's Avatar
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    She accuses the X-Men of not having dedication to Xavier's dream...something that way too many of them have died for, which is then commented on by someone that directly battled against them in their dedication to the aforementioned dream, and whom basically is the incarnation of all their recent woes. She also mentions Cyclops like she has the moral high ground there and this was at a time that Cyke was in prison getting the crap kicked out of him, while she was walking free. It was directly her fault that they lost powers. Both directly and indirectly she is at fault. Wanda Maximoff is totally ruined for me. She has been turned into the ultimate villain and I can't stomach it
    4029058-wolverine-309-zone-025.jpg

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Yeah, the self righteous/defensive attitude about what she did, and Marvel's continuing effort to pass the blame to Doom, doesn't improve her image in my eyes. Honestly, they should have killed her off a long time ago, but they were so unsure of what to do with her and kept going back and forth with her character that we are left with the mess we have now. If they would have killed her off and had her stay dead for a few years and then bring her back I wouldn't have had any complaints. It would have given them time to think about how to bring her character back in a way that would at least paint her in a better image.

  13. #28
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    Is there anything Scarlet Witch could do to redeem herself? If not, should the character be killed off forever?
    Absolutely. She's visually fabulous and is mother to the most awesome man in the Marvel universe, so she deserves a second chance

    All she has to do is:
    a) stop treating geneocide as something people shouldn't hold against her
    b) always stand-up and fight for mutant rights; but never tell mutants what they should and shouldn't do
    c) stop treating geneocide as something people shouldn't hold against her
    d) show contrition, apologies and NEVER get angry or aggressive if people don't accept it
    e) and lastly, most importantly: STOP TREATING GENEOCIDE AS SOMETHING PEOPLE SHOULDN'T HOLD AGAINST HER



    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    It is worth noting that after restoring Rictor's powers that she did try to form a plan to restore those of mutantkind who wanted their powers back but Cyclops stopped her leading to a chain of events in which she lost that power to reverse the spell. So basically, Cyclops and Patriot prevented her from undoing her spell.
    It's ALSO worth noting... that plan involved forcing everyone to take back their mutant powers (again making huge, life changing decisions for millions because SHE thinks it's the right thing, which does sort of imply she hadn't learnt her lesson the first time).
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 09-15-2014 at 12:39 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROSA13 View Post
    double standard ?
    Cyclops gos crazy and kills one person. Branded the most evil mutant on earth.

    Scarlet Witch gos crazy and commits Genocide. Forgiven and given a second chance.
    Not to derail this thread too much but Scott killed thousands if not millions in his little DP supercrazy fit. The world was literally shaking itself apart. Imagine all the sick, weak and poor that would have died from the earthquakes, volcanoes... But killing Chuckles was the most visceral thing he did.

    o

  15. #30
    Spectacular Member Runarc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    Cyclops didn't seek the power, it was forced upon him and he only went crazy after repeated and unprovoked attacks by the Avengers and more of the Phoenix forced upon him. Cyclops was also thrown in prison and left there to die and gets treated like crude by nearly everyone for something that was out of his control. Despite Cyclops being innocent he feels guilty over being taken advantage of by the Phoenix and doesn't even badmouth the Avengers.

    Wanda sought out the power herself and instead of working to make the world better, like Cyclops was doing, she instead tried to change reality into a version that SHE wanted. Than she nearly wiped out Mutantkind, after her reality failed, to spite her father. Wanda on the other hand is treated like a Princess that the Avengers constantly defend and they don't stand for any Mutant being rightly angry at her for what she has done. Than Wanda does what the Apoc Twins does and she constantly badmouths Mutants and pretend she has some morale high ground over Cyclops and every other Mutant and that only SHE can carry on Xavier's dream and none of the Mutants or X-Men can. Sheer arrogance and ignorance.



    You're twisting things and ignoring the facts.

    Cyclops didn't want to be a Phoenix Host - it was forced upon him by the Avengers against his will. Yet despite that when he became one he set out to make the World a better place and it was going well. Than the Avengers kept attacking him because the Governments, fearing that they'll lose their power and reason to exist in a world made Utopia, demanded the Avengers help them and the Avengers obey'd like loyal dogs. Cyclops didn't kill Xavier in cold blood, he was being attacked by nearly all the mainline Avengers + Xavier and he only lashed out because of the Phoenix and in self-defense as Xavier was LITERALLY trying to lobotomize him and Emma.

    Nothing like Magneto as Magneto would never have put up with Humankind still treating Mutants like trash nor would he have made the world a better place for everyone. Instead he would have only made the world a better place for Mutantkind. That and Cyclops was winning.
    The reason why they attacked Cyclops and co was because they would eventually go insane. They weren't omega level mutants, they would eventually go insane.

    And when that happens, the Earth+Galaxy would have been in danger.

    Plus they were acting like dictators. Dictators to a Utopia society, but dictators nonetheless. While killing/imprisoning all those that opposed them. How long would that have gone right?

    You know who also gives out free energy and free healthcare on top of 0% unemployment while demanding unquestioned loyalty from his people?

    Doom
    Last edited by Runarc; 09-15-2014 at 01:07 AM.

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