Is it painful sometimes to read about the citizens of the Marvel universe.

[Rzerox21xx]

I can't help but face palmed when I read something like Avengers Heroes Welcome or almost any X-men title or Spider-man where the comic often show the most stupidest jerkass ingrates that the heroes have to deal with.

Avengers Heroes Welcome has a teacher that say the Avengers aren't heroes because they focus super villians and alien invasions more than solving disease, poverty and other things. Apparently this guy is not aware that if the Avengers weren't doing what they always do, he would be a slave to a alien race or worse food. The type of people that complain about the minor conveniences and are too short sighted to look at the big picture that there's more than just heroes causing traffic jams and property damage. Things would be so much worse if there weren't heroes.

Example, Spiderman saves a guy from falling but he suffered a neck pain, he tries to sue Spidey for supposedly causing it despite the fact that if Spidey hadn't been there, he would be street pizza. Or the protestors in front of Avengers mansion towards the last year of Bendis Avengers. Or more recently, People blaming Shield for all the destruction that Galactus cause in the Ultimate universe despite being out of their control, they decide to disband Shield. Wow, that can be so painful to read.

Let's not get started with Law enforcements that always trigger happy on our heroes and always shoot first and ask questions later, not considering that they might be shooting a innocent man or someones just saved lives especially their own. They would make things worse by shooting at the hero which the hero now has to focus on making sure they don't get hurt by the villian

On mutants and more recently inhumans, you have a person who has develop powers, here's a great idea, let's form a mob around it and just make things worse and provoked the poor mutant or inhuman.

I understand it's normal for that kinda of thing in the Marvel U, but you think they taking it too far to the point that just hurts to read about these people. I guess the only average person you would sympathizes is only someone in that hero's supporting cast, outside of that, you have ungrateful petty stupid people.

Sheldon from Marvels had to chew those people out in series and Kurt Busiek did a interesting take on that kinda of reaction.

[Mockingbird]

Honestly, most of the time, they don't seem any more stupid than real people, although that does make them more annoying.

People taking the people who saved them to court because they were still injured? Happens in real life. People not believing that one thing happened a different way or had a different cause? Conspiracy theorists.

[dragonmp93]

Honestly, most of the time, they don't seem any more stupid than real people, although that does make them more annoying.

People taking the people who saved them to court because they were still injured? Happens in real life. People not believing that one thing happened a different way or had a different cause? Conspiracy theorists.

Well they maybe are not more stupid than in real life, but im sure that at least some of them are lot higher in the "#$%&/(/& scale.

[CaTigeReptile]

This issue is always an interesting one to talk about. I can't remember who first said it on the message board but a really good point to remember is that a lot of times the supervillains are only attacking because they have a grudge against the superheroes. Another issue is a lack of control - All of a sudden it's not quite an equal playing field (not that it really ever was), and most people would be so hopelessly helpless against who/what the superheroes face - and, of course, against the superheroes/mutants themselves - that their gut reaction might be to hate or try to establish SOME sort of power over them (like in the case of the police shooting at the heroes or people getting angry at SHIELD).

The superheroes are essentially above the law in a lot of ways - vigilantes; judge, jury and executioner - and they get away with things (like you mentioned, property damage) that regular people get punished for . . . and some of the heroes aren't even from Earth! They hide a lot of things from the public, including information and technology. And again, what if they ever stop being so morally upright? Then they turn into supervillains. Of course that last thought is unfair but it's natural: people would most definitely fear such powerful beings on probably an instinctual level. Jealousy would play an enormous role, too.

[FaerieGodfather]

Two words: Sally Floyd.

And yeah... real people really are that stupid, self-centered, and pitiful, but that doesn't mean I enjoy reading about it.

Of course, I wouldn't have surrendered at the end of Civil War, and I'm still angry and disappointed that Cap did. Then again, I think as soon as the first Sentinel went into production, I'd have sided with Magneto.

[Ite]

I don't read comics to hear what normal people have to say I read comics for the super heroes lol.

[Den]

I can't help but face palmed when I read something like Avengers Heroes Welcome or almost any X-men title or Spider-man where the comic often show the most stupidest jerkass ingrates that the heroes have to deal with.

Preaching to the choir there. While the others have good points, I too find that the MU Public is just colossally stupid and mean in turn to the point where I can only suspend disbelief so much on it. Would there be folks being ingrates and jerks ? Yes, but there should also be even more folks who would rush to defend the heroes imo, but that doesn't happen nearly as much as it should. Part of the problem seems to be that Marvel has now and then retconned what the public knows. One year, it seems like everyone would notice the alien invasion that the heroes save them from, and the next year it is hinted that EVERYONE decided it was a hoax or somehow missed it. You would think at least folks in MU's New York City would have a few hundred witnesses to the good things done.

[Pat Thomas]

Preaching to the choir there. While the others have good points, I too find that the MU Public is just colossally stupid and mean in turn to the point where I can only suspend disbelief so much on it. Would there be folks being ingrates and jerks ? Yes, but there should also be even more folks who would rush to defend the heroes imo, but that doesn't happen nearly as much as it should. Part of the problem seems to be that Marvel has now and then retconned what the public knows. One year, it seems like everyone would notice the alien invasion that the heroes save them from, and the next year it is hinted that EVERYONE decided it was a hoax or somehow missed it. You would think at least folks in MU's New York City would have a few hundred witnesses to the good things done.

I have to agree with you here. The MU citizens are everyday people taken to the extreme (but the heroes are, too). Nobody in the whole stinking universe thinks with a cool
head. They all act on first instinct, like a bunch of idiots. I would like to occasionally see some confrontations between heroes or heroes and the public where the first thing
everyone did was to assess the situation before posturing or throwing out accusations. I would like to think that most of the time, real people act this way. I know that isn't
always true, but I would hate to have a Marvel citizen living in my neighborhood. It would be never-ending drama over the smallest thing.

[People Of The Earth]

You're kidding, right ?

Quick review here:

Mutants:

Superhumans individuals whose powers kick-in at puberty.
If you are lucky, they just grow an extra pair of eyes.
If you are not, they can set everything they look at in fire.
Just think for one sec' what would have happened if Cyke had developped his power while being on a commercial plane for example.
Yeah.
Fact is, stuff like that happen in-universe.
The stories of mutants killing/maiming people around them by accident the first time they got their power is a reality.
It's canon.
The X-men themselves harbored some students who did exactly that...
Nevermind the part about mutants abusing sapiens with their powers.
Happens as well.
Canon as well.
Fear ? Hatred ? Check.

Inhumans:

Secret society of super-individuals whose king just happened to blow half of NY in a bid to stop an alien tyrant. Releasing an highly mutagenic component that turned people into what, freaks ?
The number of disfigured Inhumans after exposure to the terrigen mist is staggering.
And let's face it, irremediable difformity for fancy powers is not appealing to anyone.
Of course everyone is wary of the Inhumans now, when their presence is not provoking flat out hate reactions.
The public being wary of them now in light of recent events is understandable.

Atlanteans:

Regularly attacking "surface-dwellers", when they are not warring among themselves.
Tried several time to invade the surface.
Their "king" tried to destroy NYC with a tidal wave.
Tried the same stunt with Wakanda.
Given their history with the surface, atlanteans being distrusted and even hated in some parts of the world is all but surprising.

And the heroes themselves!

Beyond saving the day, yes, they get away with most of the things simple mortals don't.
Property damages.
Private justice.
Coercition.
Murder.
Mass murder, in some extreme cases.
They do whatever the hell they want with piss poor consequences, if any.
They don't respect the judiciary system 9 time out of 10.
They even cheat death on a regular basis (I recall an issue with Black Widow I think ? trying to defend why ressuscitating was so hard for heroes. Yeah.)
Some of them live like rockstars in their billionaire mansions/buildings/satellites/whatever...

Now, in light of all these elements, which are far from consistuting an exhaustive list, are you still considering people regularly lashing out at them as coming from nowhere ?
Seriously.
They might be "stupid jerkass ingrates", but they have some actual reasons to feel that way.
Punching guys and saving life is all well and good, but none of this contribute to meaningfuly change society on the long run.

[Huntsman Spider]

People of the Earth, that is a very great post and I salute you for it. I think part of the issue with this is trying to defy the sense or idea that "might makes right," as in, "Just because the superheroes are stronger than us and the only ones strong enough to put up an effective resistance against whatever extraterrestrial, extra-dimensional, or extra-temporal invader or wannabe world conqueror shows up trying to take over or blow up the planet doesn't mean they have the right to do whatever the hell they want and justify it by saying it's for our protection." The impression I get from some people who comment about this is that essentially, normal people in a superhero universe should shut up and be grateful that they weren't incinerated or subjugated by some super-powered terrorist or dictator, even though as pointed out even in-universe, people can have their lives saved but still end up worse off than before because of the actions of superheroes, however well-meaning.

As for S.H.I.E.L.D. being disbanded in the Ultimate Universe, Ultimate S.H.I.E.L.D. had it coming. As we discovered over the run of the Ultimate Universe up to Cataclysm, S.H.I.E.L.D. was repeatedly willing to get in bed with unscrupulous entities in the name of preserving national security (and military dominance) by creating superhuman weapons even if it meant all sorts of inhumane human experimentation and other human rights violations. It was partly because of the machinations of people in charge at S.H.I.E.L.D. that Peter Parker ended up dead in that reality and frankly, S.H.I.E.L.D. just didn't work anymore. As people finally realized in the UU, it's a new world with new rules and you're not going to get anywhere in it trying to play by the old world's rules, the rules of power and control by money and military might. Something had to change, and Galactus was just the tipping point.

[dragonmp93]

You're kidding, right ?

Quick review here:

Mutants:

Superhumans individuals whose powers kick-in at puberty.
If you are lucky, they just grow an extra pair of eyes.
If you are not, they can set everything they look at in fire.
Just think for one sec' what would have happened if Cyke had developped his power while being on a commercial plane for example.
Yeah.
Fact is, stuff like that happen in-universe.
The stories of mutants killing/maiming people around them by accident the first time they got their power is a reality.
It's canon.
The X-men themselves harbored some students who did exactly that...
Nevermind the part about mutants abusing sapiens with their powers.
Happens as well.
Canon as well.
Fear ? Hatred ? Check.

Inhumans:

Secret society of super-individuals whose king just happened to blow half of NY in a bid to stop an alien tyrant. Releasing an highly mutagenic component that turned people into what, freaks ?
The number of disfigured Inhumans after exposure to the terrigen mist is staggering.
And let's face it, irremediable difformity for fancy powers is not appealing to anyone.
Of course everyone is wary of the Inhumans now, when their presence is not provoking flat out hate reactions.
The public being wary of them now in light of recent events is understandable.

Atlanteans:

Regularly attacking "surface-dwellers", when they are not warring among themselves.
Tried several time to invade the surface.
Their "king" tried to destroy NYC with a tidal wave.
Tried the same stunt with Wakanda.
Given their history with the surface, atlanteans being distrusted and even hated in some parts of the world is all but surprising.

And the heroes themselves!

Beyond saving the day, yes, they get away with most of the things simple mortals don't.
Property damages.
Private justice.
Coercition.
Murder.
Mass murder, in some extreme cases.
They do whatever the hell they want with piss poor consequences, if any.
They don't respect the judiciary system 9 time out of 10.
They even cheat death on a regular basis (I recall an issue with Black Widow I think ? trying to defend why ressuscitating was so hard for heroes. Yeah.)
Some of them live like rockstars in their billionaire mansions/buildings/satellites/whatever...

Now, in light of all these elements, which are far from consistuting an exhaustive list, are you still considering people regularly lashing out at them as coming from nowhere ?
Seriously.
They might be "stupid jerkass ingrates", but they have some actual reasons to feel that way.
Punching guys and saving life is all well and good, but none of this contribute to meaningfuly change society on the long run.

So tell me why in the DC universe, there isnt an government-backed anti-Superman Project ?
Is not like a fight between Superman and lex luthor (well, his new killer robot) is less destructive than a fight between the fantastic four and doctor doom.

[Wren]

I have to agree with you here. The MU citizens are everyday people taken to the extreme (but the heroes are, too). Nobody in the whole stinking universe thinks with a cool
head. They all act on first instinct, like a bunch of idiots. I would like to occasionally see some confrontations between heroes or heroes and the public where the first thing
everyone did was to assess the situation before posturing or throwing out accusations. I would like to think that most of the time, real people act this way. I know that isn't
always true, but I would hate to have a Marvel citizen living in my neighborhood. It would be never-ending drama over the smallest thing.

And there we have it:

It's not that the MU civilians are stupid. EVERYONE in the the MU is stupid and has poor self-control. How stupid they are depends on who's writing them and which characters that writer likes and which ones he either hates or doesn't know.

Civilians are like that Z-list character, beloved and respected by no one, with no editor protecting their brand, who show up to do whatever is required to prop up the hero. If the hero is "heroic" they are fawning idiots, if the hero is "misunderstood" they are crazy hateful monsters, etc...

[dragonmp93]

People of the Earth, that is a very great post and I salute you for it. I think part of the issue with this is trying to defy the sense or idea that "might makes right," as in, "Just because the superheroes are stronger than us and the only ones strong enough to put up an effective resistance against whatever extraterrestrial, extra-dimensional, or extra-temporal invader or wannabe world conqueror shows up trying to take over or blow up the planet doesn't mean they have the right to do whatever the hell they want and justify it by saying it's for our protection." The impression I get from some people who comment about this is that essentially, normal people in a superhero universe should shut up and be grateful that they weren't incinerated or subjugated by some super-powered terrorist or dictator, even though as pointed out even in-universe, people can have their lives saved but still end up worse off than before because of the actions of superheroes, however well-meaning.

As for S.H.I.E.L.D. being disbanded in the Ultimate Universe, Ultimate S.H.I.E.L.D. had it coming. As we discovered over the run of the Ultimate Universe up to Cataclysm, S.H.I.E.L.D. was repeatedly willing to get in bed with unscrupulous entities in the name of preserving national security (and military dominance) by creating superhuman weapons even if it meant all sorts of inhumane human experimentation and other human rights violations. It was partly because of the machinations of people in charge at S.H.I.E.L.D. that Peter Parker ended up dead in that reality and frankly, S.H.I.E.L.D. just didn't work anymore. As people finally realized in the UU, it's a new world with new rules and you're not going to get anywhere in it trying to play by the old world's rules, the rules of power and control by money and military might. Something had to change, and Galactus was just the tipping point.

I still think that they are ungrateful #$%&%$# bastards; for instance, these are normal reactions to mutants, "Hey, those mutants saved us from that rampaging robot/alien/supervillain/whatever, let's throw rocks at them!","Hey, muties! Not that this is going to stop us fearing or despising you, and it won't teach us any important moral lesson, but we could really use your help saving some trapped kids over here!".

[People Of The Earth]

People of the Earth, that is a very great post and I salute you for it. I think part of the issue with this is trying to defy the sense or idea that "might makes right," as in, "Just because the superheroes are stronger than us and the only ones strong enough to put up an effective resistance against whatever extraterrestrial, extra-dimensional, or extra-temporal invader or wannabe world conqueror shows up trying to take over or blow up the planet doesn't mean they have the right to do whatever the hell they want and justify it by saying it's for our protection." The impression I get from some people who comment about this is that essentially, normal people in a superhero universe should shut up and be grateful that they weren't incinerated or subjugated by some super-powered terrorist or dictator, even though as pointed out even in-universe, people can have their lives saved but still end up worse off than before because of the actions of superheroes, however well-meaning.

As for S.H.I.E.L.D. being disbanded in the Ultimate Universe, Ultimate S.H.I.E.L.D. had it coming. As we discovered over the run of the Ultimate Universe up to Cataclysm, S.H.I.E.L.D. was repeatedly willing to get in bed with unscrupulous entities in the name of preserving national security (and military dominance) by creating superhuman weapons even if it meant all sorts of inhumane human experimentation and other human rights violations. It was partly because of the machinations of people in charge at S.H.I.E.L.D. that Peter Parker ended up dead in that reality and frankly, S.H.I.E.L.D. just didn't work anymore. As people finally realized in the UU, it's a new world with new rules and you're not going to get anywhere in it trying to play by the old world's rules, the rules of power and control by money and military might. Something had to change, and Galactus was just the tipping point.

Thanks !
Yeah, it's like they are not entitled to be angry/distrustful of superhumans in general.
I'm sure they are happy not to be eaten by Galactus or enslaved by Doom every first monday of the month - but in the end, it doesn't improve their standard of life either.
An hobo will still be an hobo post-Galactus event, people will still be starving to their death post-Doom invasion attempts, etc...
I'm no Marvel citizen but if I were, I'd be making strikes and sittings in front of the Baxter Building.

So tell me why in the DC universe, there isnt an government-backed anti-Superman Project ?
Is not like a fight between Superman and lex luthor (well, his new killer robot) is less destructive than a fight between the fantastic four and doctor doom.

I don't read DC anymore, but I'm pretty sure the first story arc of Action Comics was about the government paying Luthor to find a way to neutralize Superman.
There was also the MetalMan project I think who had the same premise.
Jim Lee/Zack Snyder Superman Unchained have a Superman deterrent working for the US in covert operations, and pre-Nu52, in a Batman/Superman story arc, Superman was confronted by an arsenal of governmental weaponry designed just to take him down (kryptonite-based weapons, superhumans commandos, even a Doomsday kryptonite clone iirc).
So both in pre and current New 52, there were government based anti-Superman Projects.

Given all the times Superman ended-up brainwashed/mindcontrolled, can we blame them ? Right now, isn't Superman devolving into a rampaging monster ?
I mean, yeah. :/

[Alvarez]

I always thought there should be a series that focuses on a few regular people in the marvel universe and how they deal with day to day life.