Bruce Banner & The Illuminati (spoilers)

[Daeron]

Really?

The last thing they need is another resource to destroy a world.

Tony's sphere
The weapon orbiting Jupiter
T'challa and Reed's anti-matter bombs
Dr. Strange's new power


If anything, they need a Hulk to help protect earth against the bad guys (priest, ivory kings, swan?, ect) or against other alt earth heroes (great society)

But to kill a world? They can already do that easily.

Unless the incursion zone is on the moon those planetary weapons are probably pretty useless. So that leaves them with the sphere, the anti-matter bombs which they admitted they might not be able to produce fast enough to keep up in the long run. And then there's Strange's power the team doesn't know of yet. And when they do find out, it'll probably be a last resort considering the cost.

But in the end, all that happened was that Banner put the pieces together by himself and Stark decided to make the best of the situation and try to recruit him. And honestly, who wouldn't be on board with this? The very first incursion showed a planet where Galactus was busy destroying it to prevent the death of the universe. Why, because he found out. Secrecy is vital.

[bad_trotsky]

Don't you think it would have been a better idea to invite Bruce/Hulk in the first place rather than banning him? Dr.Strange had a good record of keeping him on the side of good in the Defenders before creating the World Breaker persona. And even if not the Illuminati would be a group of guys with the best chance of keeping him in line. And they get one of the best brains in the MU on their side.

[Daeron]

Don't you think it would have been a better idea to invite Bruce/Hulk in the first place rather than banning him? Dr.Strange had a good record of keeping him on the side of good in the Defenders before creating the World Breaker persona. And even if not the Illuminati would be a group of guys with the best chance of keeping him in line. And they get one of the best brains in the MU on their side.

Probably, though I don't think this team is really a continuation of the Illuminati who banned the Hulk per sé. BP called them together for the incursions, and nothing else. Still after Cap's dissent, I don't blame them from thinking twice before opening the possible can of worms that is the Hulk. Stark reacted to the situation and made the best of it, but he probably wasn't a 100% sure if Banner would be on board or not, given their past.

[jackolover]

From Avengers #28, it becomes clear Banner and Hulk share the same ethics in this about not wishing to destroy other Earths. The Physicist, Banner would work towards a solution to the problem, but realizes he has to be a realist, like Stark and Richards and Panther. The Hulk has the capability to turn into World Breaker Hulk if the need requires, and break an Earth that threatens his home reality planet. This is not a dilemma the Hulk can understand, so it requires a connection to Banner in this instance, so that people can point him at the problem and he isn't conflicted. If Banner was kept in the dark about the Illuminati handling Incursions, then the Hulk would be conflicted as to what to do in an incursion if he ever got to confront one, which is very unlikely. Nobody seems to be aware of the Incursions for the duration they occur, except the Illuminati. Stark said there have been 5 occurrences so far where a planet had to be destroyed or pushed away.

Right now, having the Hulk on their side gives the Illuminati one more arrow in their bow. What is not so clear is whether the Illuminati anticipated Banner finding out about the Illuminati's operations. To me, it seems the Illuminati were forced to accept Banner into the team, because he found out, although, they accepted Cap, T'Challa and Maximus the Mad, so Banner is just one more ideas Man.

[jackolover]

You saw how he looked when he asked Iron Man if they actually destroyed a populated planet. Would he eventually agree to do it? Maybe but we'll see some good drama from it.

What wouldn't Banner agree to the Illuminati's methods, if he's agreed to join the team? The Illuminati can't be that naive to think they can control the Hulk without Banner being on side. Banner must have convinced Tony Stark that he was okay with how the Illuminati were doing things, wouldn't he?

[jackolover]

Even Stark indicated he's not entirely sure if he could do it. So it's not just Banner who is necessarily a question mark in that regard. But I do think especially given his own personal experience with the Illuminati he's the most likely of the group to not pull the trigger if it came to that.

I think the Illuminati are expanding the membership, so that more can share in the load of guilt associated with the decision to kill a planet. When somebody does have to destroy an Earth with an innocent population, they will be content that it wasn't just them being bad, but all the others as well. There is a kind of catharsis in spreading around the shame.

[jackolover]

Really?

The last thing they need is another resource to destroy a world.

Tony's sphere
The weapon orbiting Jupiter
T'challa and Reed's anti-matter bombs
Dr. Strange's new power


If anything, they need a Hulk to help protect earth against the bad guys (priest, ivory kings, swan?, ect) or against other alt earth heroes (great society)

But to kill a world? They can already do that easily.

It already seems like nobody can save a world during the Incursion. Who can do that? It's a nightmare which has no solution, otherwise the Black Swans would have found it, and they only found 8 ways to deal with Incursions, but none of them was permanent. All that is available is cannons, which seems a brutish solution to a nihilistic apocalypse. Unless they can get Superman to crossover into the 616 Earth MU, and Clark Kent can spin time backwards again, by reversing the Earths rotation, mere man is not going to fix this. At some point Hickman is going to have to send a mission of Illuminati to search out the Great Destroyer and how he was the cause starting the Incursions. Then, with this knowledge, you would think someone would be able to figure out how to stop it.

To me, it seems like the turning point of some as yet unknown character emerging as a result of stopping the Incursions. This whole thing seems like a Centre stage for some new being.

[vitruvian]

It already seems like nobody can save a world during the Incursion. Who can do that? It's a nightmare which has no solution, otherwise the Black Swans would have found it, and they only found 8 ways to deal with Incursions, but none of them was permanent. All that is available is cannons, which seems a brutish solution to a nihilistic apocalypse. Unless they can get Superman to crossover into the 616 Earth MU, and Clark Kent can spin time backwards again, by reversing the Earths rotation, mere man is not going to fix this. At some point Hickman is going to have to send a mission of Illuminati to search out the Great Destroyer and how he was the cause starting the Incursions. Then, with this knowledge, you would think someone would be able to figure out how to stop it.

To me, it seems like the turning point of some as yet unknown character emerging as a result of stopping the Incursions. This whole thing seems like a Centre stage for some new being.

The Great Society has done it multiple times, recall.

And you're forgetting that the 'shading the apocalypse' method Black Swan mentions of evacuating your own Earth and destroying it is entirely permanent, for your own reality at any rate.

Your mention of Superman spinning time backwards brings up another possible solution, since the MU does indeed possess time travel technology, even if it might not be a great idea to use it on this scale.

[MouserGrey]

Hulk was brought in by Hickman to fight Sun God, imo anyway. I hope the first thing Banner says to Hank and T'Challa is "I thought you guys were too smart for this group."

[Geralt of Rivia]

For the Illuminati I'd think that a scientific mind like Banner would be welcome in this particular situation, and for him it would be the way to keep them in check.

Yet even if he played AIM into telling him what's up I doubt that he figured it out before Doom did. I hope Hickman will get around soon to telling what Victor has been up to since recovering that debris from the blue incursion over Latveria.

[Mahes]

For the Illuminati I'd think that a scientific mind like Banner would be welcome in this particular situation, and for him it would be the way to keep them in check.

Yet even if he played AIM into telling him what's up I doubt that he figured it out before Doom did. I hope Hickman will get around soon to telling what Victor has been up to since recovering that debris from the blue incursion over Latveria.

Pretty confident that this plot point will be addressed. It provides a lot of good tension. Hopefully we'll see it addressed after this current arc is over.

[Darthfury78]

It would be cool to see how Bruce handles begin a part of the team without the Hulk involved. But wouldn't be interesting if Peter Parker was a member of the team as well? He does have his Ph.D afterall.

[Mahes]

It would be cool to see how Bruce handles begin a part of the team without the Hulk involved. But wouldn't be interesting if Peter Parker was a member of the team as well? He does have his Ph.D afterall.

Peter Parker in the Illuminati? No. Just no. Too much of a boy scout to belong.

However, the Superior Spider-Man is a completely different story.

[Sprite]

Peter Parker in the Illuminati? No. Just no. Too much of a boy scout to belong.

However, the Superior Spider-Man is a completely different story.

I agree. Peter would go ballistic on the idea alone. Otto, on the other hand, would be very fun to see.

[Cmbmool]

For the Illuminati I'd think that a scientific mind like Banner would be welcome in this particular situation, and for him it would be the way to keep them in check.

Yet even if he played AIM into telling him what's up I doubt that he figured it out before Doom did. I hope Hickman will get around soon to telling what Victor has been up to since recovering that debris from the blue incursion over Latveria.

Given the events of New Avengers, one has to wonder ....who is Hulk protecting the world from: Namor or the Illuminati ?