Avengers/New Avengers: Time Runs Out (with spoilers)

[Orbus]

At this point Hickman has made the heroes so dark, divided and useless I think I'd be happy if the entire marvel multiverse just did cease to exist and they started from scratch. I don't see anyone worth saving and if this sells they'll have to make the next event even darker.

Sam, Roberto, Izzy, Hyperion don't seem dark or divided at all. I'd say the newer heroes Avengers are proving to be more effective than the veterans who all have heavy baggage to contend with stretching from things years back way before Hickman was involved. I'd argue that's a theme to the story.

That being said I'm keeping proverbial money on the idea the vets will claw it back in the end. It wont be cut and dry but it's been the way that heroes who don't don't always get along or like each other or even want to be heroes since Marvel established their house style in the sixties.

[Will]

Sam, Roberto, Izzy, Hyperion don't seem dark or divided at all. I'd say the newer heroes Avengers proving to be more effective than the veterans who all have heavy baggage to contend with stretching from things years back way before Hickman was involved. I'd argue that's a theme to story.

I think one of the most important things Hickman has done for the Avengers franchise that nobody really talks about is adding a legacy element to the book. This really has been a primarily DC concept for a long time (excluding the X-books) and you could see that with the FF and now with this peripheral Avengers rank. I really like how there are now within the Avengers a group of heroes too old for teen books but young enough freshen up the zeitgeist and take on real responsibility. Hoping that Sam, Bobby, Izzy, Eden and Starbrand (if he doesn't die) stick around the Avengers mainline after Hickman's departure because they are evolving into great characters who need more spotlight.

[XPac]

It not so easy the main problem first would be the Illuminati would had inform the world why but their main mantra is we don't leak information because we know best. So it wasn't an option for them.(and its not an easy task)

The building of the bomb gave the world more time through the fact that the Cabal using them now but at the end the bombs are no solution because the universe ends on its own.
I said it earlier we can't expect any solution from the Illuminati they were designed by Hickman to fail and in some way the bad guys.

Like Hickman basically says the problem with the Illuminati is they don't discuss problems with others and they don't include opinions from others.

The problem(from me perspective) is with that all their solution aren't any near of any consensus, so they are highly anti-democratic and works like dictators which will automatically end up in a confrontation with other superheroes and on top of that the "solution" you have are properly not the best their is because you didn't include the knowledge of others.(and it will be totally one sided).

Which brings me to Cap that he broke the silent of the Illumnati which really open the book. I don't know why every one blame him for doing something bad what he did will properly rescue everything at the end of the story because of his silence breaking Doom know about the incursions now.

The funny thing before the Illuminati were created for CW Reed teamed-up with Doom frequently to rescue the world from cosmic threats and now Doom works with the Thinker to do it without him.

I'm not saying evacuating the planet would necessarily be easy (though I suppose in theory it could be if a plot device like a cosmic cuber or an uber powered Wanda or a Franklin Richard was used). But I do think it's an option they should have explored, particularly if they're incapable of actually using the bombs anyways.

Bottom line is that it was an option presented to them (with the added bonus of sparing the rest of the 616 future incursions and not involving the murder of billions of people). It should have at least been explored as a POSSIBLE option rather than completely ignored. To me it's just in a long list of stupid things they've been doing this whole time.

And there is a certain irony to this story. The universe is right now relying to Thanos to stop the incursions, and Doom to solve the problem. Thanos and Doom... they're the ones doing the MOST to save the universe. Thanos and Doom. It's almost funny.

[XPac]

I think the Illuminati were wrong for keeping it entirely to themselves because the weren't able to solve the issue by themselves, but I'm pretty sure that Cap announcing it to everyone will have negative effects as well. Cap had 20 people under his command and it already looks like that team has been split up. I doubt Axis and the stories of their solos are the only reasons for these changes. The "sacrifice" of Wakanda and many other issues may be a result of everyone being in the know of what happened.

Course, if spilling the beans assisted in Doom better understanding the situation then whatever cost that might have come from Cap spilling the beans will likely be worth it.

[XPac]

I wouldn't say flat out ignored her. Beast at very least seemed intrigued and I wouldn't be surprised to find out he had investigated it.

I don't think you can really fault the Iluminati for that option not being on the top of the pile when you consider it would cause mass panic skepticism among the populace.

I'd fault them for not putting the evacuation plan on top of the bomb plan if none of them are willing to use the bombs. The inherent fault in the bomb strategy makes really almost any other option preferable at least as far as they are concerned. If you're not going to do plan a, then you REALLY REALLY need a plan b.

[TakoM]

I'm not saying evacuating the planet would necessarily be easy (though I suppose in theory it could be if a plot device like a cosmic cuber or an uber powered Wanda or a Franklin Richard was used). But I do think it's an option they should have explored, particularly if they're incapable of actually using the bombs anyways.

Bottom line is that it was an option presented to them (with the added bonus of sparing the rest of the 616 future incursions and not involving the murder of billions of people). It should have at least been explored as a POSSIBLE option rather than completely ignored. To me it's just in a long list of stupid things they've been doing this whole time.

And there is a certain irony to this story. The universe is right now relying to Thanos to stop the incursions, and Doom to solve the problem. Thanos and Doom... they're the ones doing the MOST to save the universe. Thanos and Doom. It's almost funny.

It similar to DC's flash point were all the characters were completely altered, axis will go with it even further some changes will stay after the story but I think most of the "world end stuff" will disappear otherwise the Illuminati and the Avengers would fight forever and you couldn't make one decent book with one of the Illuminati characters.

I'm not sure what Marvel plan while we have in nearly every book heroes vs heroes stuff now. The stuff that seems to be after this in the future seems more classic and ground bound like :"Spider-Man & X-Men". We also had a preview which show(Superior) Iron-Man and Dr.Strange as part of an Avenger Team. Marvel plays hide ans seek with its plans for the future of the characters it seems.

[sifighter]

You know whats really weird about this, Hank Pym as Yellowjacket again. What I mean by this is that since this story arc is an 8 month time jump this is supposed to be around April or May 2015, but the Ant-man movie where Pym is an old professor and Yellowjacket is going to be the villain is out in July, two months after this is happening and around the time of the Times Run Out event, you think someone at Marvel would have seen something about this.

[Iron Maiden]

Welp, Hickman keeps writing the most interesting and intriguing marvel book right now. We have 3 different factions now, I am most interested in Doom's gang of F4 villains.

They should have their own code name like the Cabal and Illuminati have. Notice that Mad Thinker, Molecule Man and Doom all wear mostly green. At times Kristoff wears green too Maybe "Mean and Green" LOL.

[UltimateTy]

You know whats really weird about this, Hank Pym as Yellowjacket again. What I mean by this is that since this story arc is an 8 month time jump this is supposed to be around April or May 2015, but the Ant-man movie where Pym is an old professor and Yellowjacket is going to be the villain is out in July, two months after this is happening and around the time of the Times Run Out event, you think someone at Marvel would have seen something about this.

Hank Pym is so different in that movie so would it really matter?

[PlanetaryDevastation]

They should have their own code name like the Cabal and Illuminati have. Notice that Mad Thinker, Molecule Man and Doom all wear mostly green. At times Kristoff wears green too Maybe "Mean and Green" LOL.

It should be "Making you green with envy."

[neohuey89]

Course, if spilling the beans assisted in Doom better understanding the situation then whatever cost that might have come from Cap spilling the beans will likely be worth it.

All I'm saying is I think similar to AVX everyone would be both right and wrong.

[Mahes]

Hank Pym is so different in that movie so would it really matter?

Sounds like next thread topic for Cmbpool.

But yeah, I'm not sure what difference it makes for him to be Yellowjacker at all.

[Master Planner]

You have a faction were earth's most brilliant minds act like jerks,another faction which is heroes and the military-industialist complex who hunts those self-centered jerks and in the middle,an ironclad dictator who looks more heroic than most of the heroes.


What a wonderful world!!!

[Orbus]

I'd fault them for not putting the evacuation plan on top of the bomb plan if none of them are willing to use the bombs. The inherent fault in the bomb strategy makes really almost any other option preferable at least as far as they are concerned. If you're not going to do plan a, then you REALLY REALLY need a plan b.

Well they all thought they were willing to use the bombs right up until the very moment it came down to pressing the button. I don't think any of them expected their conscious to get the better of them.

[UltimateTy]

Sounds like next thread topic for Cmbpool.

But yeah, I'm not sure what difference it makes for him to be Yellowjacker at all.

Hahaha don't give him any ideas.